Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Boiler installation not in compliance with the code
New England homeowner
Member Posts: 2
Two weeks ago, a Buderus 115/28 and Carlin EZ burner were installed in our home by our oil company to replace the original 62 year old oil fired hot water boiler. We have been customers of this company for about 6 years. The company also does plumbing and air conditioning work.
The contractor took out the permit. The town inspector told me that the installation was not in compliance in 2 ways. There needs to be a thermal sensor mounted above the burner to automatically shut it off if excess heat is detected. There also needs to be a manual shutoff switch mounted in another room such as the top of the stairs.
The owner of the company made TWO visits to our home to prepare estimates (for different boilers) in Dec '03 and June '04. Before giving him the contract in July, I spoke to him on the phone and asked him if the price "includes everything to do the job according to the code." He said yes.
I promptly paid him in full when the job was done. Now he is willing to install only the sensor over the boiler. He said that I will need to hire an electrician (and pay) to have the manual shutoff installed at the top of the stairs. He said that is beyond the scope of his license. This situation does't seem right to me and I will follow up with the inspector.
On the phone yesterday, he had a very cavalier attitude toward inspectors. He said that they often don't enforce the code for these 2 items. Ironically, the owner sits on the state examining board in his trade and should be aware of safe practices and the code.
I would appreciate any feedback, especially from contractors and others in the industry. Thanks. This site is amazing. I followed posts for many months as I struggled to select a replacement boiler.--Chris
The contractor took out the permit. The town inspector told me that the installation was not in compliance in 2 ways. There needs to be a thermal sensor mounted above the burner to automatically shut it off if excess heat is detected. There also needs to be a manual shutoff switch mounted in another room such as the top of the stairs.
The owner of the company made TWO visits to our home to prepare estimates (for different boilers) in Dec '03 and June '04. Before giving him the contract in July, I spoke to him on the phone and asked him if the price "includes everything to do the job according to the code." He said yes.
I promptly paid him in full when the job was done. Now he is willing to install only the sensor over the boiler. He said that I will need to hire an electrician (and pay) to have the manual shutoff installed at the top of the stairs. He said that is beyond the scope of his license. This situation does't seem right to me and I will follow up with the inspector.
On the phone yesterday, he had a very cavalier attitude toward inspectors. He said that they often don't enforce the code for these 2 items. Ironically, the owner sits on the state examining board in his trade and should be aware of safe practices and the code.
I would appreciate any feedback, especially from contractors and others in the industry. Thanks. This site is amazing. I followed posts for many months as I struggled to select a replacement boiler.--Chris
0
Comments
-
in Ma......
The code of Ma. calls for the 'customer emergency switch'
outside of the boiler room. The top of the stairwell only if a door seperates the boiler from the stairwell. The thermal switch MUST be mounted above the boiler. You mentioned that he stated everything will be up to code.
Will Rodgers said that "An oral agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on". Hopefully you had a written contract for this work. He may have assumed that an Emerg.
switch already existed. The thermal switch is a no brainer,
He should just do it. The E switch is another matter.
Get a quote from an electrician for this and offer to split the burden. Show good faith in this regard. Your fuel business has to count for something. People make mistakes.
How they deal w' them defines who they are. Try to determine if it was an oversight on his part, ask him. Check your written contract, does it mention "up to code"?
Try working it out w' your dealer before stirring the nest.
Should you not be able to rectify the situation the state fire marshall supercedes the local inspector. This should be a last resort though. Good luck.0 -
Here,
In N.J. it is ILLEGAL to collect final payment until AFTER the job is inspected. Job is not considered "done" until the inspection sticker is on the boiler. Not sure if its the same by you.Check the wording of your contract. If it says anything like " according to code" it really should have been included. It usually goes without saying that the job will be inspection worthy upon completion. In my estimation, the switch should have been included if it is needed to pass the final. A sitting inspector should know that. I think it would reflect poorly on any company if they made you pay extra for that which should have been included from the start. If, indeed, your fuel business counts for ANYTHING, he'll install the switch. CHECK THE CONTRACT !0 -
Code Practice 101
The devices you describe are so common to an installation that I have trouble believing the contractor did not include them. You as the homeowner rely on the contractor (or any other professional) to provide a code-compliant installation. How would you or any other customer know what is or is not needed? (he asked rhetorically...)
This ought not to have been this contractors first installation, I would hope.)
The contractor/professional owes you a "standard of care".
Personally, I would look over the proposal. If on a standard form there is usually language in there about the work conforming to 'all applicable codes and ordinances', and/or he should have excluded the work and stated "electrical work shall be arranged by the Owner" or some such.
I wonder how he managed to wire the circulator, burner and other electrical devices without an electrician? Better go check....
If there is nothing to mitigate his position, I would insist that he do it or you will report him to the licensing authority. That he sits on the board could be a tad embarrasing, but that is not your problem.
I am not being litigious; by all means be concilliatory, but state that he has not complied with the code and has left you at risk, bottom line.
I suppose he can give you an asbestos suit so you can shut down the boiler in a fire, but that is not my call :^)>0 -
As you can tell by the diversity of opinions here,
these codes may be quite different in each state - and as in Boston and NYC, can be unique by each town! Therefore, we must assume the inspector is basing his failure on a code he believes is enforceable.
The issue of a final payment being made only AFTER final inspections (and approval)is indeed NJ code. But it is a joke because the amount that may be retained, is unstipulated! Many of us use that loophole to simply make the last payment the pitance of the cost of the permits!
Totally legal!
Your case however, has nothing to do with that Jersey nuance and involves the language written in your contract/agreement. And the fact that you made a major faux pa. That being, (as I'm sure you already know) paying the balance prior to passing inspection!
I have never heard of a state holding the homewoner responsible or liable for installation shortcomings; unless of course he did the installation himself! In your case, that would seem impossible. The contractor pulled the permits - and his work subsequntly deemed to be in non-compliance.
Your ally is the inspector. Use that alliance to make the contractor comply with the inspector's directive(s). Save all the failure notices the inspoector left and call the inspector making him aware the code and compliance issues are not your area of expertise - which is exactly why you contracted with a pro to have the installation made in the first place.
How could he NOT enforce compliance?
Further, under what guise could the contractor suggest you are liable for what he suggests are "extras," when he infact, is the installer and presumably a "journeyman"?
Be firm. It is the contractor's obligation to make a code compliant install. It therefore follows that the homeowner is not liable for the contractor's screw up.
This is between the inspector and the installer. This in no way should involve the homeowner, or his wallet!
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
\"Left you at risk\"
is a pretty profound statement but haven't they been at risk for 62 years (the original installation)?
Would it be better to negotiate with the contractor? It's possible he "assumed" there was a switch which doesn't eliminate his obligation.
Honest oversight? Share the cost?
Make it right.0 -
In MA the E-switch is the same as earnie stated it was but the 527 also says the oil burner tech. can only wire the
system from the Therm-switch, anything before that belongs to the electrician. I'm amazed at the fact that N.J. can
dictate how and when you can collect your payments. Do they tell GM, Ford, Etc. that they can't collect full payment on cars sold until the vehicle passes inspection? MA has got it's share of messed up laws and it looks like Jersey is up there too.0 -
Thanks Ken.
Couldn't / wouldn't have said it better. Balls in the contractors court.Ignorance isn't a condition to cotractors compliance.If the contract stated ALL LOCAL CODES, it's a given. Kind of cut and dry, eh? Chris0 -
Thermo switch
Is a thermo switch required on the ceiling above a gas boiler? If so, where can I find one?0 -
No thermo switch for gas in MA.0 -
e switch
Is an emergency off switch required on a gas boiler in MA ?0 -
Codes
Check with your local Licenses and Inspections Dept. to be sure the inspector is not wrong. Have them show you the codes. Assuming the inspector is right, then- by the contractor taking out the permit- he is agreeing to follow the codes. If the code is in writing, as an official ordinance then the contractor can say any thing that makes him feel good. The fact is that the code calls for an emergency switch and a cut off. END OF STORY! He is wrong! I would attempt to reason with him. Does he want to lose a good oil account as well as risk any litigation or official action over his own mistake? If he resists, Tell him you will file a complaint with the inspector, Licenses and Inspection Dept. as well as any licensing authority and local consumer agency or dept. And do exactly what you say! If he is a professional, he will stand by his work, take care of the problem and move on. And by the way, you should take your business elsewhere, in any event as he apparently cannot be trusted.0 -
Yeah but...
if the contractor said the job would be up to code, then he either wires the switch, or has an electrician do it. No?0 -
Mixed answer on Gas emergency switch
I have gotten mixed answers from different inspectors. The obvious, of course. Then I have had inspectors tell me to remove them, their thoughts being, in case of a gas odor, which may be a leak, they would not want the homeowner have a switch to touch, which could casue an electrical spark, and thus an explosion. All warnings on all gas fired equipment that I can recall, say something like, In case of emergency, do not touch any switches, leave the home, and call the fire department or gas company from a neighbors home. If people had a switch to touch, they might do it. I believe the phone part was more put into play when more people had rotary phones.
I dont know what the actual code says.
Chuck Shaw0 -
Thank you to all who have offered opinions
My oil company has been in business for many years. I agree that I blew it when I made the final payment promptly after he finished the installation. In retrospect, I should have waited a few more days until the inspector viewed the job. I acted in good faith as I had been his customer for several years. His company had acquired our previous oil company about 6 or 7 years ago.
The inspector is right and the contractor agrees that the items not done are indeed the code in our state. I spoke to the inspector yesterday and he told me that he spoke to the contractor (also yesterday.) He told him "Your installation failed inspection, fix it."
I am angry at myself. I take pride at being very careful about things. I educated myself about boilers using this excellent site and other websites. I made sure that a heat loss calculation was done and even did a couple myself using free software. I made sure that the INR output of the boiler was sized appropriately. I am compulsive about maintenance making sure our original boiler was cleaned yearly (for the 48 years my family has owned this house.)
However, I was not compulsive enough about the wording in the written contract. That is, it does not state that the work will be done in compliance with the local codes. I still believe that the equipment installer is responsible for compliance.
I am taking a conciliatory attitude and am waiting for the contractor to contact me next week. The amount of money involved is likely to be around a couple of hundred dollars for the switch at the top of the stairs. It is possible that the contractor did not notice that we did not have one.
Thanks again to everyone.--Chris
0 -
You are taking the right attitude by waiting at this point. I not only work in Massachusetts but I am also a Call Firefighter. One of my firefighter friends who is an inspector recently took an oil company before the Dept of Public Safety, they hold the authority to suspend an oil tech's license which is technically called a Ceftificate of Competency. When an inspection fails it is the installers responsibility even if he has to bring in another trade. You have done your part now he needs to do his.
Leo0 -
Honest oversight?
The entire basis of having a written agreement/contract is to define the responsibilities of both parties. In this case, the homeowner and contractor.
Why should the homeowner suddenly be responsible for not only paying for the installation (as required by the language of the agreement/contract); but now have to be burdened with code compliance issues regarding how the contractor installed the equipment - which is after all, clearly the contractor's responsibility?
By what logic should the homeowner assume ANY costs to remedy a contractor shortfall?
To be "a nice guy"?
Contractor incompetence should not be rewarded with some buyer's "accomodation." The buyer already made one huge and rather costly "accomodation"; he paid the contrator before the job passed inspection! To suggest he make yet another "accomodation," is akin to putting fertilizer on a weed.
Whether stated in the four corners of the agreement/contract or not, the buyer has the legal right to assume work being performed will be code compliant - period!
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
-
Honest oversight...??
Sure .. probably was
but I think the contractor has an obligation to make it right. I've been there .. just fix it and move on.
Really what are we tlking about here ... 4 hours labor at absolute most? plus a pittance in materials. Instead he lost a customer.
Dingo0 -
yup....
You guys are right. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.
Oversight or not it is the installers' responsibility. I've
quoted on boilers which had no E sw or wrong location. I bring it up to the H/O "to bring this up to code we need to..." I offer my electrician directly to the H/O or sub him on it. I guess on first read through I looked at it through 'contractor shaded' glasses. I always add a personal note w' every proposal. Should you find any errors or omissions in the written wording vs. our discussion please bring it to my attention. Any errors are unintentional and will be treated professionally. Kinda lets him know that you're both human and approachable.
0 -
contractors oversite was not telling the H/O they would need an electrician ahead of him for the e-switch if he didn't want to touch it. Even if he can beat it technically
why loose a customer and his reputaion over a simple
switched-loop up to a box with an e-switch and cover plate.0 -
In
all of my quotes for boiler replacements, I state that the final 10% of payment will not be billed for 30 days after the installation. This gives the HO time to run the system, and me time to get the inspection. I want happy clients so that i am not always chasing new ones!
Leo G
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
shouldnt matter
I do enough install's that I think I can safely say that even though the contract does not state "done in compliance with the local codes" he still has to follow established code's. He is installing this equipment and must do so to code!!! If we didn't have to put everything to code then why have them?? I have alway's installed these item's on every install. I do not check with the salesman because I know they need to be there. In reference to earlier posting's on switch's for gas unit's, I personally alway's install a switch on the unit for the service tech. I also install a thermal fuse on gas unit's, although not required by code it's a cheap safety..0 -
Ah, I
love periods.
So final.0 -
N.E.H.
One point that should be made is you are a homeowner,not a professional heating contractor. That is the reason you called your oil company in the first place. You probably did not have the tools, equipment or expertise to do the job yourself. You hired him to do the job and he did not complete it. If you are satisfied with the settlement, fine. But as a professional he should not push the blame on you when he is the expert and should know the codes regarding his trade. Unless there is something about your house that makes it really difficult to run a wire for an emergency switch, such as plaster or cement walls or finished basement and ceilings, I don't think it's a big deal as I have installed hundreds of them. Likewise, a safety switch to turn off the heater in event of overtemperature is probably not difficult either. Good Luck.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 86.3K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.1K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 53 Biomass
- 422 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 90 Chimneys & Flues
- 2K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.4K Gas Heating
- 100 Geothermal
- 156 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.4K Oil Heating
- 63 Pipe Deterioration
- 917 Plumbing
- 6.1K Radiant Heating
- 381 Solar
- 14.9K Strictly Steam
- 3.3K Thermostats and Controls
- 54 Water Quality
- 41 Industry Classes
- 47 Job Opportunities
- 17 Recall Announcements