PEX in Massachussetts

Unknown

You must know. Any news about PEX's adoption into the MA code?

The Board is slow. SO SLOW. WHY do they not accept change?

Test sites a-many.

Gary

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Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Shoulda'

never left California, Gary.

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ScottMP

Duuude

No ground shaking on this side ..... O.K. it gets REALLY cold

Gary, I was told that they were very close and then the plastic industry wants to know why pex is to be approved then why not pvc plastic pipe. So BACK it goes. Thats how I unerstood it. I DO KNOW that we won't see it this fall as we were told.

The new board was Supposed to be quicker and a newer kindler board.

As I said before, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Scott

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Unknown

Hmmmm

Sombody should light the kindling under that board.....

Noel

David Sutton_5

Strong plumbers union

you make a lot more money on running copper than you do pex, why would they let you cut there profit, by cutting down on labor,

Constantin

... other things to consider...

... make it possible to install PEX legally and more DIY'ers will do so, cutting plumbers and others out of the work altogether.

...it's much easier to apply glues and couplings to PEX than it is to solder copper sections together, so more people will attempt it.

... no open-flames to scare the missus.

...nonetheless, even if PEX becomes legal, I doubt the trades would see a big hit. After all, I have seen plenty of high-profit "just-fix-it, please" opportunities on the Wall when untrained homeowners are suckered into a less-than-efficient radiant heat install by a website or two.

Unknown

Noel,

I'll be trying out some of your Slant Finn Terra Therma PEX C next week. (for RFH) I like the red color and the pricing:) I special ordered it from the Rep. They don't carry the S/F RFH line. The brass fittings are made in Israel?

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joel_17

masss messs

The plumbers union and board much be a bunch of out to lunch guys if they think the majority of people are going to DIY.Loose work to DIY??? Nope very little, most of our customers don't clean thier own house or mow thier lawn. These people out here for the most part are never going to DIY thier own plumbing. They don't detail thier cars or change thier own oil. They don't paint thier houses themselves. They simply don't have time. Many have to leave for work at 6-7 and get home at 6-7. On Saturday they can 1 Spend some time with the kids or 2. "Gee honey lets have some fun and replumb the house" Righhhhhhhht

Unknown

The tubing

is too.

Noel

Ted_8

More info

Who is the rep in New England? I have been trying to get some Slant FIn info for a while now.

Ted

Unknown

Urell

for boilers and baseboard.

Radiant is still spotty in New England. Where would you like to see it?

Noel

Slant/Fin

Geo_2

pex

Can't use pex for domestic in massachusetts....hmmmm, oh wait! thats right! send the state $100 and you can use it!!!.Bull poopies, been using it (quietly) for a few years, great product, fast and a real money saver. Get with it Massachusetts Board of Plumbers and gas fitters, even crazy California has approved this stuff.

chuck shaw

the same arguments

were given when PVC was intoduced for DWV piping. The bottom line in Mass is that a homeowner cannot legaly do his own plumbing. Massachusetts General Laws sect 142. So it should not matter. I am not saying I agree or disagree with this, but it is the law here. My personal feeling is that the unions get nervous. If a job goes faster, you cant get as much labor for your local. And pex would be faster then copper. In my not so humble opinon, that is why pex is not yet approved in Mass. The unions are too strong.

Chuck

jerry scharf_2

PEX in California

> Can't use pex for domestic in

> massachusetts....hmmmm, oh wait! thats right!

> send the state $100 and you can use it!!!.Bull

> poopies, been using it (quietly) for a few years,

> great product, fast and a real money saver. Get

> with it Massachusetts Board of Plumbers and gas

> fitters, even crazy California has approved this

> stuff.



and it only took a lawsuit! The state even tried to appeal the court decision... The more things are different, the more they are the same.

jerry

Chris_32

Why the switch?

A while back you were singing the praises of another manufacturer and what great support they provided and now it seems you have fallen to the price demon. Is it worth it? Will the few pennies a foot make a difference in the amount of work you get? What happens the next time you need help? I ask these things because I am very loyal to my brands. I feel that you are erroding the entire profession when you jump around no mater who you are with. Acts like this will drive us all into a commodity mind set, even our skills and knowledge will be a commodity. Manufacturers already waste enough time chasing each others customers in stead of creating new markets and opertunities. Jumping around over chump change just adds fuel to the fire.

Unknown

wetheat 1,,,, HUH?

OUCH !!!

The only reason I am using the other brand of PEX (S/F) is the fact that I will be tapping into an existing radiant loop (by others) and adding couplings & pipe to be buried within concrete. I wouldn’t adapt one PEX MFG to another and bury it for warranty reasons alone. Would you? It’s best to find & obtain the matching tubing/fittings and stay within one piping system where this is concerned. You agree?

I haven’t “fallen to the price demon.” Just a bit surprised at how much less the red pex was compared to what I allways use and will continue to use on ALL my jobs -- Upanor Wirsbo's line. I am also VERY loyal to my brands and I DO NOT “jump around.” I’m also using at least 2.000’ of 1/2" Multicor™ and 300’ of 3/4" Ecoflex twin™ on this very same job.

A bit curious as to why you jumped on me for this.

Still think I’m eroding the entire profession?

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Chris_32

Not so simple I guess

I am a Rehau guy and I stick to my guns. I am the only one in my area, or least it seems, that does ot install the flavor of the day. All of the wholesale guys and manufacturers reps spend a great deal of time chasing the contractors to make the switch instead of working on people like the architects and builders which would help to grow the overall market and generate more work for us all. The other issue is that as these guys fight over the relatively few of us out there the only thing that seems to matter is price. In this case the value of the overall system is tied to the cost of the pipe and if it becomes a comodity so does the rest of the system. The result is that we can not get good pay for our work. It seems to me that this is all tied together and I do not want to be a comodity.

If all pex is basically equal then I wish that it all was priced the same and not on the low end. It's hard to tell my customer that I want a certain price per square foot when they know that the pex is so cheap to buy and it's all over the internet for everyone to see. So I guess this is why I got on your case. I saw you post about Wirsbo a while back and I thought "good stuff" another guy that sticks to his guns. I was disappointed when I saw you post about using another brand and that you said price was a factor. Sorry that I jumped on you without knowing all of the facts.

Unknown

then you need to sell the value of what you provide. Quality control on the pipe, quality of the fittings, what have you.

If you can't establish value with those criteria, then perhaps you need to look at what value you are actually providing your customer by selling them the product you are selling them. If it helps you work easier, then drop your labor rates. If it means you'll have less callbacks, lessen any padding you add to account for that. If it doesnt' do any of that stuff but it "looks nice", then maybe your job is a little harder.

As far as them seeing pricing, if the client cannot understand that you have overhead and need to make some money on your parts, then they are unreasonable. Most people understand that. Say things like well I could sell you the tubing at cost but it's going to triple my labor rate because I need to make this to do this job. If you can't do that... well... how are you determining what is fair pricing?

PEX is becoming a commodity. Not 100%, but close to it as the things installers and such want in their tubing lines are becoming common knowledge and the manufacturers are working around that now. I've been loyal for years to one pex brand but lately we dabble in rehau and wirsbo and frankly we're looking seriously at switching to another line that will drop our tubing costs in half, provide high quality associated parts, and the tubing is easier to handle to boot without being substantially weaker.

Now I can sit here and "be loyal" or I can acknowledge that the brand name on the pipe isn't necessarily worth $.25/foot on all jobs. If the client is willing to pay that extra because wirsbo tests every roll of tubing that comes off their line, so be it, and I'll inform him of that difference. If not, I can't blame him.

It would be one thing if it was ten years ago and Entran type problems were happening to all these pipes... it's not. There are dozens of brands out there with proven track records now.

So the question I ask is, what value is Wirsbo providing me now? How about Rehau? My job is not to make them money. My job is to give my clients the best value I can... not the cheapest price, the best value. the tubing companies' job is to make sure I want to give them my money.

Welcome to the free market!

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