water migration by convection

clammy

It looks like the guy was trying to do a primary secondary pumping but didn,t know the rules .for starters there should be flow control valves on the out lets of the pumps and to help stop the thermal migration they could pipe a thermal trap on the returns and install a flow chk on the supply and return of the domestixs tank to pervent over heating and possible scalding from high domestic water temp or better yet get some one else to repipe your boiler who has a clue and will support all those pumps with more then a piece of 3/4 copper under it peace clammy

a wife

water migration by convection

Here's the deal, I'm a wife who'spouse that knows this stuff. He asked me to write Dan about our new system that was screwed up by the installer. These guys are to be back tomorrow (09/17/04) and he wants to know how the problem should be resolved. Next is the letter he asked me to write to Dan....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Dan

I just had a new Buderus boiler installed. It's zoned with two circulator pumps on a common manifold mounted vertical with domestic hot water. The circulator pumps are installed on the same manifold. A Wirsboro control and Honeywell T87J controlling.

What's happening is the thermostat is NOT calling for heat, BUT... When the domestic hot water calls, I get hot water circulating thru the zone two circulator pump. The boiler circulator is on the return, the series is on a loop.

1) Series - loop piping

2) Finned tube base board

3) Two story house.

What are your ideas for a fix?

Your expertise and help would be much appreciated.
Thank You!

Sincerely

Gary Folz
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Please help, My dear hubby doesn't know I'm putting this email on 'the wall'.... a desperate wife

lchmb

how about

Have any more picture's? Some of the front and any piping rising to the ceiling? I don't see any flow check's but wonder if they put them in higher? I would at minimum have more support put in as clammy mentioned. What area are you located in? You may find someone in your area who can help you out further with an on site inspection...Good luck

Ray Landry

wonder if those are grundfos ifc pumps...

a wife

Here is another photo

Wife here again.... Here is another photo. The house was built in '69 and we are located near Minneapolis MN. The new boiler is going from an oil to gas system and a traditional electric water heater to the boiler making the hot water. My DH will be in line tomorrow to give more info if you think it would be needed... Thanks guys... I appreciate your help.

a wife

pumps

Ray, the pumps are Grundfos, type UP 15-42F, P/N 59896155 P1. Do you think they are part of the problem? You probably noticed that a couple were closed. That is due to the problem... Heat when it's not called for.

Carl PE_2

what everybody else said.

header is below pumps.

heat rises.

need flow checks.

now, tell us about the eye chart..

also, nobody's mentioned the flexi-flue or the conduit..

jerry scharf_2

the \"problem\" is easy, fixing the piping is more

As the others have said, gravity flow is your problem, and flow check past the circulators is the simple fix.

Either I am or the piping is quite confused. Without someone to map out every pipe and connection, and how the controls are working with it, it will be hard to say how to fix the piping.

I'd think about hiring someone very experienced in hot water heating and local to sort it out and give specific instructions for the installers to fix. It's a cost you would most likely eat, but at least you get a correctly installed and operating system at the end of the day. I would not try to get the installers to fix it without external advice, their work speaks for itself.

best of luck, jerry

Blackoakbob

Hello Ms.
I'm west of St. Cloud if I can be of help.
They could swap the pumps out with the Grundfos' that have an internal check, that would be a quick fix, there are several nagging problems that will be left, like everyone else has pointed out.
Would tell us if you got a few quotes before you selected this company and were they the lowest bid and by how much.
Best Regards,
Bob

lchmb

just a few thing's...to start

I would start with having the Grundfos IFC circulator's installed. I would also require them to remove the flex venting and go rigid. Also due to clearance have them place something inbetween the stair's and the venting. Moving on to the wiring hanging loose, I see that as a hazard. If you have kid's or someone stop's by with kid's and grab's those line's hanging loose....Best of luck..:)