aluminum fins for pex

michael_13

sorry if some of you answered this question already, but I lost use of my computer for several days:

I'm about to install the radiant tubing in a new house I'm building, and was going to use the aluminum fins that staple up under the subfloor--gypcrete isn't an option on this project--and a local plumber told me that these fins "tick" when the water temperature rises or falls as the metal expands or contracts. The distributor of the product swears up and down that their product (Radiantec) doesn't do that, but I don't want to find out it does after all the sheetrock is up...
anyone out there have experience with this?

Ted_9

Radiant Trak

RTIs' Radiant track doesnt made noises. These are rgidge aluminum plates that you srcew to the bottom of the subfloor. Check them out


I prefer these. The flimsey aluminum ones that use use to cover pex my make some noise, but I wouldnt know since I beleive it to be an inferior product and I wouldnt use it.

Go with Radiant trak.

Patriot Heating & Cooling, Inc.

John Felciano

Aluminum flashing

First let me say this.Pex expands when the fluid temperature in it increases.The expansion rate of pex tubing is about 1" per 100' per 10*.Thats alot!

If aluminum flashing is used as a heat transfer from the pex tubing to the subfloor there is a very good chance that you will hear a ticking sound when the fluid in the tube goes from 70* to 120-140* quickly.Your looking at about 7" of expansion on a 100' run.Most systems have hundreds or thousands of feet of tubing.

There are several ways to stop this ticking sound from happening.One is to use good quality extruded (thick) aluminum track rather than thin flashing.The ticker aluminum doesn't expand as rapidly and is much quieter.

The other is to use a outdoor reset control and change the fluid temperature more slowly.It's the fast change in temperature and expansion that causes the noise.If the fluid temperature and expansion happen much more slowly there will be virtualy no noise.Think of outdoor reset as cruise control for your car.

On our jobs we use both,heavy extruded track and outdoor reset and I'm happy to say we've had no complaints of noise.

Good luck with your project.

hr

Another noise source

is the barrier on the outside of some pex. That EVOH barrier can cause some squeek or ticking type of noise. Sometimes confused with aluminum plate expension noise.

Consider pex al pex tube to limit expansion movement, do away with potential barrier noise, and ease of bending and general installation.

I think you are wise to consider an extruded aluminum transfer plate also. Slant Fin and Radiant Engineering offer the very best. In my opinion.

If the tube is locked solidly in the transfer plate the noise issues are handled. Reset controls are a big plus also. Anything to take the hi-low temperature spikes away from the tube will help, and add additional comfort.

Of course a heat loss calc and design to provide the needed heat with the lowest supply water temperatures is alway a wise first step.

hot rod

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Pat_12

Wirsbo joist track

My supplier carries Wirsbo joist track. Is this as heavy as the Radiant Trac or Thermofin? Anyone who has used both, please reply.

hr

Pretty sure

The Wirsbo plate is one and the same as the RTI plate. As Uponor owns both companies.

The ThermoFin www.radiantengineering.com is the original. Often copied, never duplicated! They have also done the most testing FEA and actual performance testing. Their output numbers are correct. Maybe a tad conservative

ThermoFin is a heavier gauge aluminum with the best (tightest) fit of any I have used, including the above mentioned The alloy of aluminum, temper grade, and design of the channel is all part of the difference. I also like the 8 foot lengths for new construction work. Fast and straight.

The RTI or Wirsbo would be my second choice.

I like the ThermoFin "U" pattern. As far as I know the only U shaped extruded plate.

hot rod

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Unknown

they are the same plate.

as HR says, thermofin is the original and best extruded plate on the market.

It won't fit "7/8"" pipe though, not that you probably really want to use that in a joist bay.

You can use lightweight plates and not make noise; use reset controls as others have mentioned. We've got a ton of those jobs out there, noise free. Give the tubing room to expand and change temperatures slowly and you're fine.

However on some of those jobs out there we'd have gone with heavier plates if they had existed back then (or we had known about them!).

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Pat_12

Thanks for the informatioin on the Wirsbo, RTI and Thermofin plates. As always your help is greatly appreciated.

michael_13

> is the barrier on the outside of some pex. That

> EVOH barrier can cause some squeek or ticking

> type of noise. Sometimes confused with aluminum

> plate expension noise.

>

> Consider pex al pex

> tube to limit expansion movement, do away with

> potential barrier noise, and ease of bending and

> general installation.

>

> I think you are wise to

> consider an extruded aluminum transfer plate

> also. Slant Fin and Radiant Engineering offer

> the very best. In my opinion.

>

> If the tube is

> locked solidly in the transfer plate the noise

> issues are handled. Reset controls are a big

> plus also. Anything to take the hi-low

> temperature spikes away from the tube will help,

> and add additional comfort.

>

> Of course a heat

> loss calc and design to provide the needed heat

> with the lowest supply water temperatures is

> alway a wise first step.

>

> hot rod

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 144&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

michael_13

noisy radiant

thanks for this information. very helpful. do you have any idea what guage you're talking about with the thermofin and Wirsbo? I'm wondering how they compare to the track that this company I was talking to sells.
For you heating professionals, is Radiantec just a big joke or is it possible that they actually sell quality products and do it directly, ie cheaply?

Unknown

If you take the time to completely educate yourself about radiant rather than relying on their "know how", and you do your own heat load calculations to make sure whatever you put in will work, you might be able to get a good system out of them.

If you just let them walk you through it though, you're rolling the dice. I have more than one client that came to us after getting off the wall quotes or worse, partially installing completely inappropriate systems from radiantec. Non barrier pipe in a slab going through a cast iron boiler? bad, bad BAD.

the good news is, the difference between them and a good system isn't necessarily all that much.

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Dave Stroman

Use 3/8 Kitec with the RTI plates. You will not have any noise.

Dave in Denver

radiant_3

radiant

You did say NEW house correct? Why would you be installing a system UNDER the subfloor. That should be reserved for existing conditions where there already is a finish floor. Do your self a favor and install it on top and have someone qualified run a good design for you. If you want the best Raupanel and Viessmann is the only way to go.