\"pumping away\" and p/s piping question

RPG_2

I know I should read Mr. Holohan's book, but I'm an amateur impoverished by my new Munchkin purchase :) so I'm trying to figure it out on my own even as the contractor does the install.

The boiler loop looks like this: tee>>pump>>tank>>Munchkin>>tee where arrows show flow of water. So the pump is NOT pumping away.

Question 1: Am I right that this does not matter, since the boiler loop pump doesn't affect the pressures in the rest of the house?

Question 2: The two zone loop pumps, however, should both pump away from the tees, i.e. towards the radiation...right?

Question 3: the P/S piping looks like this ('ToZ1' refers to the tee from which water goes to zone 1, etc.)):

ToZ1-ToZ2-AirElim--------------toBoil-FromBoil-FromZ2-FromZ1

What I am trying to indicate is that ToZ1 andr ToZ2 are far from the other four tees (>24"). This is a result of restricted wall space available: there is actually a sideways-U shaped pipe supporting the tees, and ToZ1/ToZ2/AirElim are on one leg of the sideways-U, while the other four tees are on the other leg. Spacing between nearby tees is 3".

I hope this makes sense; I know I am not speaking the professional language correctly. My question is, will this lead to flow in one zone affecting the other zone? It seems to me, perhaps naively, that the To and From tees of each zone should be very close to each other or there will be a pressure drop across them that might cause flow in the other zone.

Oh, the U-shaped pipe connecting the tees is 1" diameter copper, and there are also check valves, so maybe this is a non-issue?

Thank you very much for your insight!

Ted_9

Im getting a head ache, can you take a digital pic and post it?


Patriot Heating & Cooling, Inc.

EJW

Wow!

Dan Peel

P/S

Like Ted, what you are saying and what I am seeing could be worlds apart. A drawing or photo would put things in perspective. In the mean time have a look in the owner's manual for your munchkin - the required piping will be there. For most restrictive heat exchangers the circulator should be pumping into the boiler but away from the expansion tank - system requirements may preclude this. Enjoy.....Dan

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R. Kalia_4

layout

Dan Peel

Yes

The circulator and expansion tank are reversed in their order of appearance. I'd change them. Enjoy....Dan

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Ted_9

Ted_9

First let me say that if the piping is truly installed that way, Im not impressed.

I hope the circulators are on the bottom manifold. If thats the case, I hope the air scoop on top is going the right way and it is 18" away from the closest tee. But I recommend that the air elimination be on the supply side. Also,as Dan Peel said, move the expansion tank. Its so convieniant to just hang it under the air scoop. Look at my most recent install.

Also there is no problem with the 24".

And the tees have no relevance . It looks like regular supply and return and plus there are circulator that will move the water.

Weezbo

could be New Style Plumbing *~/:)

jerry scharf_2

there are detailed pictures in the munchkin manual

There are very nice drawing in the installation manual of the accepted piping methods. Your contractor should show these to you and show you how the plumbing matches them.

It seems like you are a bit edgy/worried about the install (even before they showed up.) It's hard, but it will be a smoother ride with your installer is you relax a bit, make some coffee to share and tell them the tour is on your nickel. He bid based on doing the job without "help," so it's fair that the time you cost him by asking all this be above the install quote. I hope you don't take this wrong, it's meant to be a help.

There is often a confusion on the location of the pump on the munchkins. The expansion tank determines the primary loop, which is the load loop by HTP design. The secondary loop feeds the boiler. If you look at where the expansion tank is (the point of no pressure change) you will see that the pump for the boiler is indeed pumping away from it. It doesn't matter which side of the close tees that the expansion tank is on, as long as no major hydraulic resistance is between the tank and the tees (a few feet of 1" pipe certainly isn't a problem.) If you put the pump past the boiler, then you would have the boiler between the expansion tank and the pump intake, and thus puming into the expansion rather than away.

Beyond the pumping away, there is a flow switch in the boiler and HTP prefers that you pump into the boiler/flow switch rather than away from it. They know the product, they write the rules, people should follow it or check with HTP.

just my $.02.

jerry