Heating Oil Return Line

Jimi Les

OK, here goes.
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Jimi Les

Heating Oil Return Line

OK, here goes. I have a gentleman in Danbury, CT who has a 550 gallon heating oil tank buried in his front yard which supplies oil for his furnace & hot water heater. He would like to install a new 330 gallon oil tank in his basement, where his heating equipment is located, ( 40 feet away) and discontinue use of the inground tank. The in ground tank has 2 - 3/8" copper lines going to the furnace, one connected to the strainer, and the other connected to the bottom of the burner with no items in the piping between the burner and the oil tank. After the oil strainer, there is a tee with a single 3/8" copper line feeding the hot water heater. Now this looks an awful lot like a supply & return piping arrangement, but I'm not sure. I'm not an oil burner installer, just a plumber, but I've replaced a few oil tanks over the years, and they have always had only one pipe from the tank to the burner, so now I'm a little baffled. Now here's my questions :
1. Is this a supply and return?
2. Does the new indoor tank need the return?
3. Where do I need to connect this return to the new oil tank if it is indeed neccesary?

Allright, that's it in a nutshell. I know there are alot of very smart people who surf through THE WALL, and I sure would appreciate any input on this topic. School's in, and I'm ready to learn, so enlighten me guys. THANX

clammy

2 pipe

What you are looking at is a 2 pipe supply return system it was set up that way so the burner pump would bleed itself and send the rest of the pumped oil back to the tank ,unlike a single pipe system which you have to manaully bleed the pump and if the oil lines have any vacume leaks your burner will not get enough oil and go off on reset .If the new tank is some distance from the burner you could can use a duplex fitting on the top of the tank make a steel or copper pick up a few inches from the bottom of the tank and drop the return line just a few inches back into the tank .The pump is marked but on a 2 pipe remenber to install the by pass plug other wise you 'll have to bleed her manual and the return won,t do any thing i hope i haven't confused you good luck and peace clammy

J.C.A._3

My advice...

install the 330 tank in the basement,Put 1 line to the boiler, and another line to the H2O heater.

Install a OSV for each of them at the tank (if one or the other lines fails, it will shut it down , and not empty the tank into the ground).

I HATE "top feed" situations from any oil tank. Think about the syphon principle. If the oil line failed below the top of the oil tank, without a stop, or negative pressure actuated valve, the tank would syphon.

This is a personal thing, as I work on lots of systems that are in close proximity to the ocean, and want to keep it as clean as possible. It will mean the same thing to people who's tank has done depleted itself into the ground next to their foundations, but will cost a bit less.(think about a truck from "Clean Harbors/Enpro" , or your local remidiation company, costing abot 5000$/day per,to be a modest price).

Bottom line, give the customer what they want.(sounds good to me!) Make sure that it isn't going to make you liable for anything that you may do, and go for it. Chris

Oil Tech

2 pipe system

First off are you running the oil line overhead? If not you may want to go with a single pipe system consisting or a firematic, 3/8" ball valve, a filter of you choice(we prefer garbers),3/8" flared Tee, oils line in order out from the tank to Tiger Loops on each appliance. Just did this on a problem system last year and have had no more issues. Running a single line eliminates the entire tank being filtered constantly reducing the need to change filters more frequently, adding the tiger loops will utilizes just the oil thats in the pump and once installed the pumps will be self priming just as in a 2 pipe system.

Rookie_3

2 pipe

Nice, but why not bring the return line down off the bottom with the supply line? Any problem with the supply line and you could pull the by-pass plug and go to the return line
single stage.

Weezbo

install tiger loops,AND osv,

grvity pressure over a pump with out an oil soleinoid on the burner is never a Good thing. no positive oil shutoff before the oil filter no matter what kind is also never a good idea it will work without them however,you will be setting yourself up for a seal failure and possibly a fire,and nusiance calls....then too,who would service the appliance with oil pouring out of the end of the pipe?? when i did lots of service work,id inquire as to the depth of thier tank,if the oil lines were higher than the tank and no positive shut off id leave.

Jimi Les

TIGER LOOP ????

> First off are you running the oil line overhead?

> If not you may want to go with a single pipe

> system consisting or a firematic, 3/8" ball

> valve, a filter of you choice(we prefer

> garbers),3/8" flared Tee, oils line in order out

> from the tank to Tiger Loops on each appliance.

> Just did this on a problem system last year and

> have had no more issues. Running a single line

> eliminates the entire tank being filtered

> constantly reducing the need to change filters

> more frequently, adding the tiger loops will

> utilizes just the oil thats in the pump and once

> installed the pumps will be self priming just as

> in a 2 pipe system.



Could you please explain/describe a " Tiger Loop". I am unfamiliar with this term ( maybe it's a New England thing). I was planning to install a ball valve shut off at the bottom of the tank where the supply will be fed from. Fill, vent, & guage will be on the top of the tank, with one more 2"F tap that I was going to plug . So you're saying that with these " Tiger Loops" I can eliminate the return line? The bottom of the tank will end up being level with the burner, so I figured gravity and the weight of the oil in the tank would be enough to push the oil to the burner. Can I just cap the return outlet on the bottom of the burner without harming the burner? I'm still not getting a clear picture. Sorry, maybe I'm not giving enough information. HELP

Jimi Les

TIGER LOOP ????

Could you please explain/describe a " Tiger Loop". I am unfamiliar with this term ( maybe it's a New England thing). I was planning to install a ball valve shut off at the bottom of the tank where the supply will be fed from. Fill, vent, & guage will be on the top of the tank, with one more 2"F tap that I was going to plug , unless I need to connect the return line here. So you're saying that with these " Tiger Loops" I can eliminate the return line? The existing supply and return lines come into the house from outside about 3 feet above the floor, drop down to the floor, and run across the basement floor to the furnace.The bottom of the new basement tank will end up being level with the burner, so I figured gravity and the weight of the oil in the tank would be enough to push the oil to the burner. Can I just cap the return outlet on the bottom of the burner without harming the burner? I'm still not getting a clear picture. Sorry, maybe I'm not giving enough information. HELP

Jimi Les

TIGER LOOP ????

Could you please explain/describe a " Tiger Loop". I am unfamiliar with this term ( maybe it's a New England thing). I was planning to install a ball valve shut off at the bottom of the tank where the supply will be fed from. Fill, vent, & guage will be on the top of the tank, with one more 2"F tap that I was going to plug , unless I need to connect the return line here. So you're saying that with these " Tiger Loops" I can eliminate the return line? The existing supply and return lines come into the house from outside about 3 feet above the floor, drop down to the floor, and run across the basement floor to the furnace.The bottom of the new basement tank will end up being level with the burner, so I figured gravity and the weight of the oil in the tank would be enough to push the oil to the burner. Can I just cap the return outlet on the bottom of the burner without harming the burner? I'm still not getting a clear picture. Sorry, maybe I'm not giving enough information. HELP

Jimi Les

TIGER LOOP ????

Could you please explain/describe a " Tiger Loop". I am unfamiliar with this term ( maybe it's a New England thing). I was planning to install a ball valve shut off at the bottom of the tank where the supply will be fed from. Fill, vent, & guage will be on the top of the tank, with one more 2"F tap that I was going to plug , unless I need to connect the return line here. So you're saying that with these " Tiger Loops" I can eliminate the return line? The existing supply and return lines come into the house from the in ground tank about 3 feet above the floor, drop down to the floor, and run across the basement floor to the furnace.The bottom of the new basement tank will end up being level with the burner, so I figured gravity and the weight of the oil in the tank would be enough to push the oil to the burner. Can I just cap the return outlet on the bottom of the burner without harming the burner? I'm still not getting a clear picture. Sorry, maybe I'm not giving enough information. HELP

Glenn Harrison_2

Here's a link that may help you with a Tigerloop.

http://www.westwoodproducts.com/tigerloop.htm

Weezbo

You Figured correctly!

thats the whole problem with gravity fed systems it inDeed Does put pressure over the burner...........................Now lets explore that "Feature" just a bit............the oil pump seal goes kaput because of the pressure...the oil leaks through after every burn cycle.....the fire box fizzes the oil off fairly nicely after each cycle by flash burning the oil once the burner starts....ok so one day the oil nozzel cloggs a bit and it squirts oil out into the box.....Buht It Fires some how..goes off on reset..but you now have a nice orange red flame burning in the boiler...Plenty black oil laden smoke billowing out every crevise of the beast!.....or...how about this one,the oil leaks and leaks and leaks into the boilerand you get a call theres no heat.....so you think hmmm....i bet if i push the reset it will start..BANG!the trans former flips back the fires shooting out of the barometric damper and the fields damper is IMPRINTED in the sheet rock....theres no turning That off anytime real soon......i will not continue with Experientials....trust me a single pipe system with a osv..a real valve a meltdown a tiger loop with supply and returns ...ta da! No hassels. post and pre purge also is a reccommendation i'd like you to consider.

Ken D.

Return line

For some reason the first part of your message wae obliderated. Here goes- If single pipe it sounds like what your describing is what the old timers called a "Plumber's Loop". The supply line tees off to the return port also. I have never had to install one. The function, as I understood it was to reduce the vacuum level-which it does. I have usually seen them in an application with a high rise or long run. This can also be accomplished by a Tigerloop or Daisyloop as previously suggested. They do have to be manually bled. Or are there 2 lines? If so this is a return line. They are self-priming. One problem is the entire capacity of the pump and lines is constantly circulated while burner is running. This can result in filters and strainers blocking up quicker and less life for the pump. Tigerloop is advised as well as an OilSafety Valve to keep the tank from emptying on the floor if line is broken.