Venting Requirements - Munchkin vs Revolution

Eric Peterson_3

I'm assessing the viability of installing either a Munchkin or a Revolution boiler. The existing boiler is sited near the center of the basement adjacent to the chimney, which works well for atmospheric venting, but this location is less well-suited for venting out the side of the house.

Vertical venting through the chimney is not an option at this point due to space restrictions and the long run that would be required.

Here's the question: anyone know why the Munchkin and Revolution have such different spacing requirements? The Munchkin requires a) 3' from inside corner of outside walls, and b) 4' clearance to windows/doors. The Revolution requires only a 1' clearance from windows/doors when direct vented (no mention of inside corners).

When the total allowable run is calculated, the suitable venting locations on my house would make for a very tight and unsightly venting installation for the Munchkin, whereas the Revolution could be vented in a much more simpler configuration.

Any comments on this situation would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric Peterson

Plumbob

Plumbob

> I'm assessing the viability of installing either

> a Munchkin or a Revolution boiler. The existing

> boiler is sited near the center of the basement

> adjacent to the chimney, which works well for

> atmospheric venting, but this location is less

> well-suited for venting out the side of the

> house.

>

> Vertical venting through the chimney is

> not an option at this point due to space

> restrictions and the long run that would be

> required.

>

> Here's the question: anyone know

> why the Munchkin and Revolution have such

> different spacing requirements? The Munchkin

> requires a) 3' from inside corner of outside

> walls, and b) 4' clearance to windows/doors. The

> Revolution requires only a 1' clearance from

> windows/doors when direct vented (no mention of

> inside corners).

>

> When the total allowable run

> is calculated, the suitable venting locations on

> my house would make for a very tight and

> unsightly venting installation for the Munchkin,

> whereas the Revolution could be vented in a much

> more simpler configuration.

>

> Any comments on

> this situation would be appreciated.

> Thanks, Eric Peterson

Joe Shmoe

Look at a

Viessmann Vitodens instead. No Clearance Issues, and more efficient.

hr

I'm not sure

I would want a vent that close to a window or corner, even if the manual said it was acceptable.

The inspector makes the final call. Sometimes they go with the manufactures spec, but more often the local code. Many mechanical codes use NFPA 54 as a part of the code book regarding venting and combustion air.

You might compare NFPA 54 to what the boiler manufactures installation manual allows. And check with the local AHJ, of course, they make the final call.

Hate to see you end up with a venting mess, which an inside corner can easily present. I go to great lengths, pun intended, to vent fossil fueled appliances through the roof

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

beeper

beeper

How high is the chimney consider it being used as a concentric

the inside corner guidlines are so that recirculation of flue gas is avoided. If having to vent out at an inside corner you can install a 90 on the exhaust and go up verticaly for four feet or so and then install a street 45 so the the flue gas goes up and out in to the atmosphere.

If you consider using the chimney as a concentric simply install a peice of pvc down the chimney and put a 90 on it so as to extend a peice of pvc out the wall of the chimeny pitched 1/4" per foot to provide specified slope to Munchkin for proper removal of condesate fluid. Be sure to extend it at least 18" beyond the top of the chimney. Then install the intake to extend a few inch's in the the chimney. Seal both penetrations and you now have a concentric vent. You must lable the vents pipe so that in the future no one will install an atmospheic fuel fired appliance and vent it in to the chimney. This will insure the exhaust vent stays intact.
If you fax me a detailed drawing on how you think you may think you want to vent the Munchkin please fax it to me at 508-763-4909 attention jeff. Bare in mind we can overide any inpestor as they almost always rely on the direction of the manufacture. We also make a high quality stainles steel indirect for your domestic needs see www.htproducts.com
Thank you for concidering the use of our products. Remeber the Munchkin heater stands alone in its unique design,quality and performance.Looking forward to your reply

beeper

The possibilities are endless

Nron_8

venting

watch the inside corners on building as the moisture from the direct vent can collect and cause damage to the siding during the coldest part of the year when the boiler runs closer to max temp and you spend more time out of the condensing mode there is about 1 gal moisture vapour for every 100 mbh and this can add up and cause problems

Eric Peterson_3

Chimney Venting

I too have always felt that way as far as venting goes. It seems the best place for exhaust to go. Venting through the chimney in this case would involve installing PVC or AL 29-4C in the flue of a chimney that tops the (steep) roof of a three-story house by a good five feet. It's a difficult job, plus the water heater vent would be lost requiring a move to an indirect. So that's why I was hoping for the sidewall venting, but I now believe that that is not viable.
So it's either go for the difficult installation or remain atmospheric.

If the chimney is used as a chase, "Munchkin Man" suggested concentric venting, I don't see why that wouldn't work with the Burnham either. On the other hand, I wonder why a separate intake vent - one that came in from a sidewall rather than down the chimney - wouldn't be acceptable. Munchkin does not seem to like this, it seems like Burnham is OK with it.

--Eric Peterson

Unknown

Concentric Vertical Venting

is one of the venting options for the Revolution boiler. This would involve utilizing 5" B-vent however. The chimney can be used as a chase to get above the roof but a custom fabricated termination piece would be required on top of the chimney. We would prefer that the intake air be at the same location as the exhaust for balanced conditions. Others have put them at different locations, but they are at risk of possibly not proving the differential pressure switch during strong wind conditions. We do state that the termination be a minimum of 12" from the corner of the building or wall.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

marc

burnham vertical concentric

glenn has burnham come up with a new way to vent vertical, the concentric way with bvent is a time bomb, the bvent rusts all to hell even if it is painted, we have replaced numerous venting assemblies due to rusted out bvent, we have change the way we do conc. vertical venting with the rv. although some inspectors do not aggree with the way we have altered the design. our way eliminates the rotting bvent. marc.

Eric Peterson_3

Chimney Venting Problems

With the Burnham, would Power Venting through the chimney be an option (as opposed to direct venting)?

Sounds like there are issues with this (Revolution venting) as well, at least with the recommended installation. Believe me, if you saw this chimney you would not want to be going up there to paint or inspect it. Maybe I can send a picture.

PVC would at least be maintenance free. There would need to be something at the top of chimney holding the PVC pipe centered in the flue. Does HTP supply such a part?

--Eric Peterson

Eric Peterson_3

Viessaman and B-vent

> Viessmann Vitodens instead. No Clearance Issues,

> and more efficient.

Eric Peterson_3

Viessaman and B-vent

I looked at the Viesseman web site and see that they recommend/require the same B-vent that someone else was complaining about in a later response in this thread.

Doesn't seem to help in this situation.

--Eric Peterson

marc

viessmann

if your are talking about the vitodens, the only bvent mentioned is for the roof jack, collar, otherwise it needs to be there venting or stainless steel for some applications. marc.

Unknown

Marc .... Not sure

what exactly you are referring to regarding B-Vent corrosion. Are you referring to Revolution Concentric installations with rotting B-Vent or standard installations with B-Vent. Since there are NO flue gasses even exposed to the B-Vent in the vertical concentric installation, there can't be any deteriorization of the B-Vent from the flue gasses. I've been around this business for 32 years and can remember the number of corroded B-Vent chimneys I have seen on half of one hand. Most installations in my area are either Hart and Cooley or Selkirk (Metalbestos) chimneys and from what I have seen, there is no issue here. That's not to say that some other brands can't have the problem you are referring to though. Generalizations can sometimes be a dangerous thing Marc. One vent manufacturers problems may not necessarily be applicable to other brands. Hope this helps.

Glenn

Unknown

Marc ..... Still Waiting

for a better explanation about what you may be seeing as far as rotting B-Vent.

Glenn

marc

venting

we have replaced at least 4 different vent assemblies, the B vent is rotting from the outside from the exhaust gas on the 3 in. stainless, it litterally chews up the bvent tee and 1 foot piece above. actually replace one job twice, and it was per burnham to shalack or paint the exposed bvent, this was and is a temporary fix, when i was at a local burnham class per your rep. from burnham this was not an issue. " it costs $$$$$$$ to get new design for the venting." some of these are on a metal roof, it totally stains the roof, as i said in the earlier post we have modified the termination and it has eliminated this problem. i am not bashing burnham just the design for the vertical concentric venting, i have been looking for some pictures to show you, some jobs were in 99 or later. hope this helps, thanks for your attention to this matter, marc

marc

east and west coast

try emailing me in the morning, i am on the west coast. was working then mowing the lawn. marc

Unknown

What brand of B-Vent Marc?

I have not heard or seen this happen back east where our biggest market for these boilers is. I'm a little concerned as to why is happening to your jobs.

Glenn

marc

i believe it is metalbestos

i was not aware of having to use a specific bvent, it acts as a chase for the 3 in. and delivers the combustion air. the concentric kit/ installation manuals say use type B vent. again the venting is corroding due to the exhaust gases from the 3 in. s/s. hitting the outside of the bvent. marc

Unknown

I looked into this today Marc

Apparently this indeed has been happening in the Western regions for some reason but not neccessarily in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast regions where I am located. Possible causes are the differing climatic conditions you folks encounter. I was told that we are working on a solution for this but it will take some time for recertification and testing to happen. I am told the possible causes are the flue gas byproducts being held in close proximity to the body of the tee due to persistant prevailing wind conditions and colder atmospheric conditions.

Glenn