Benefits of Munchkin in non-radiant House?

Wayco Wayne_2

Sorry I came into this late

I've done many Munchkins of old gravity systems. With the vast cast iron and circulator, not to mention home upgrades in windows and inslation, the cast iron rads are ususally way oversized. I did a job last Winter on an old gravity conversion that we had the top setting on the reset at 140 degrees at 10 degrees outside temps. Saved him lotso money and stopped the roller coaster of temperature swings. We also put in constant circ. I know you have 3 zones, but for the cost of 3 circulators and some piping changes you could make those zone valves into heat injection valves and have constant circulation in all 3 zones. Heewack! The fun is limitless with a hydronic system.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

It works if the homework is done first!

We've installed a number of Munchkins in older cast iron systems too. The most dramatic one to date, was a conversion from steam to hot water with zoning and a bit of radiant thrown in to warm a stone floor in their Tudor style mansion. No insulation or window upgrades (yet - although they're planning on replacing the leaky metal framed single-pane windows next). My heat loss calcs indicated we'd need every bit of 170 F (averaged) temps on a zero degree day.

The owner, an engineer who manufacturers products widely used in the hydronics trade, claims his fuel usage dropped by 70% the first year (last year), which was much colder than the previous year.

In yet another application where cast iron rads and baseboard were in use with a standard 80+ cast iron boiler, the owner (another engineer) has stated their fuel usage dropped by more than 30%.

The recent fuel cost increases have created a strong demand for high efficiency appliances and that has all but eliminated previous up-front cost objections. Case in point: a current project in a row home in a distressed area of our city. The owner, in her 80's, has children who hover over every bill we send like hawks - looking to see if we're taking advantage of her. They question EVERY bill & on more than one occasion, I've had to sit before them for a question & answer session. Not a pleasant situation, but she's been a long-time customer and very nice to work with. Her heating bills have been driving her crazy & the three examiners wanted to have a pow-wow with me regarding what could be done. Low & behold - the grouchiest of the three suggested we consider installing a Munchkin! Now, I've been raked over the coals by these three characters repeatedly in past years, so I figured one look at the difference between a standard boiler cost (which by itself would have been a huge improvement over the coal converted to gas boiler)vs a Munchkin boiler cost would be a no-brainer - "we want the lower cost unit", they took all of about two seconds to state they wanted the Munchkin! You coulda knocked me over with a feather.

The long & short of it, is that our customers are asking for these products by name.

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John MacGregor_3

Munchkin efficiency

Eric,
What you really want to know, eliminating all the fluff, is whether or not the Munchkin will save you money and pay for itself.

I sit on a senior citizen's housing commission and in December, 2002 we replaced two 30 year old W-M boilers with Munchkins and a Bradford-White E-Force water heater. We did this in 3 buildings with a total of 24 living units.

We saved 20% on the entire utility bill, even though the cost of natural gas went from $.42 to $.83 per therm, the electric is $.10/KW, and the water and sewer bills are horrendous. NOAA also tells us the average tempurature in the lower 48 states was 6% colder than normal in 2003 and that 2002 was warmer.

The annual utility bill dropped fromm $22,000 to $17,000.
A Hell of a deal.

Quit screwing around, proscratinating, and analyzing this thing from every angle you can think of, and do it!!

End of conservation!

John MacGregor_3

Munchkin efficiency

Eric,
What you really want to know, eliminating all the fluff, is whether or not the Munchkin will save you money and pay for itself.

I sit on a senior citizen's housing commission and in December, 2002 we replaced two 30 year old W-M boilers with Munchkins and a Bradford-White E-Force water heater. We did this in 3 buildings with a total of 24 living units.

We saved 20% on the entire utility bill, even though the cost of natural gas went from $.42 to $.83 per therm, the electric is $.10/KW, and the water and sewer bills are horrendous. NOAA also tells us the average tempurature in the lower 48 states was 6% colder than normal in 2003 and that 2002 was warmer.

The annual utility bill dropped fromm $22,000 to $17,000.
A Hell of a deal.

Quit screwing around, proscratinating, and analyzing this thing from every angle you can think of, and do it!!

End of conversation!

Kal Row

amen

the same realy goes for the vie$$mann or the ultra,
the combustion alone is so much more efficent - to hell with whether you can utalize condensing or not!!!

Kal Row

amen

the same realy goes for the vie$$mann or the ultra,
the combustion alone is so much more efficent - to hell with whether you can utalize condensing or not!!!

the was this guy a while past on the wall that hooked an ultra to an old gravity system directly - no primary/secondary, no nothing - had tons of air in the system - it was all screwd up - condensing?, ha!, this guy had it running at 190f, neverthless - the utlra was still dropping his gas bills - so there!!!