cost fixing

joel_4

I actually do some of the things Ken suggested but not all, always more we can learn from each other. YP is important in our area though as we have so many new people moving in and they go there first alot.They really don't know anybody or where anything is. I went to a house two towns over this week and they had no idea where my town was or how far (close) it was. It's wierd i get that all the time it's like they move here drive from work to home and back and never explore anything else.Our area is the fastest growing in the state in the last 10 years.

joel_19

cost fixing

Now we all know price fixing is illegal for obvious reasons and that's a good thing. How about cost fixing?? Most of our work comes from good referals and the web, as i suspect is true of most contractors. Very little of it comes through the yellow pages. However the YP has become a big exspense for all in our locale area as over the years the adds have become bigger and fancier as everybody tries to keep with or out do the Jones's. What would be wrong with sending a nice letter to friend and foe alike suggesting that next year we put the brakes on this by asking that everybody go down 1 add size from this year or all drop color or something. In the extreem we could all just run a line add and of course people would still be calling. The only people getting rich is the phone company and we just pass the cost on down the line. I say it's time for a Boston Tea party of sorts.

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Joe_51

elections too.....

Better yet...maybe we can get both political parties to put a cap on their spending, stupid commercials on tv take it down a notch. 4 more months to the election and I'm sick of both parties throwing mud at each other.Always pointing to the bad in the other person, never the good in them.whoever wins,.....we're screwed. My name is Joey and I approve this message.

Ken_8

I like the concept,

but it flies in the face of a free market as well as the basic concept of capitalism we so cherish.

Keep in mind, there is absolutely no reason for you to "compete" in any way in this ad conundrum. Those of us that can't grow and profit by simply doing phenominally good work - always trying to be a cut above those who do advertise in the YP, know this to be so.

When I'm competing with a YP (Yellow Page) advertiser (and aren't they all?), I use it against them. I have never lost a job (that I know of) as a result of the other guy having a bigger ad - or any ad at all for that matter.

Here's what I ask and tell the customer, "How did you hear about us: I know it wasn't our ads"? "We don't believe in them." "Did you know a small ad in the YP cost 500-bucks a month or more"? "That's over $5,000 a year"! "Who do suppose actually pays for that ad"? "Of course, YOU do."

"Which would you prefer, me to put that ad money into your new heating system - or be able to provide the same system at a lower cost to you - or that I have a big expensive ad and simply tack the cost on to my rates"?

"We make the same amount either way." "We would just pass the expense off to the customers."

Not only are those lines of thought true, the underlying thought also brought forth is, "Might we not also assume they MUST advertise in that manner, because they do not have the word of mouth referals a top quality contractor (like us) would normally generate"?

The correct logical assumption would then be, "We have more work than we can handle - and don't advertise." They obviously need more work - otherwise why would they have an expensive ad in the YP?

Our work load is the result of a reputation we have earned by high quality work at reasonable prices. They, must advertise because one or both of those elements are lacking. Their either expensive or inept.

Bada Bing. Bada Boom. Just sign here. Thankyouveddymuch.

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Pat Clark

I agree with Ken

Back in 1983 the YP came out with the "FULL PAGE AD". I had 2nd position in our book and my cost was going to go up to around $4000 per month. I completely redid my entire YP strategy saying enough is enough. All my other competitors jumped right in and plunked down the big bucks. My YP rep looked at me with disbelief after calculating my new cost at just over $100 per month and stated "You will be out of business within the year, you are making a terrible mistake." Well he was partially correct, several of those companies that had full page ads are no longer in business.

That was 1983, I believe this is the year 2004. I still have a small presence in the YP to this day, and in fact will probably cut it again next year as the cheap in column ads I have been getting have creeped up in price over the last several years. Time to slash them again.

We encourage our customers to look us up in the white pages, where we have a triple bold listing and are the only plumbing and heating company on both pages. Our name is very recognizable and we have a customer base of well over 7000. We didn't get them from spending a lot of money in the YP's.

Pat (Alaska Time) Clark

Ken C.

And what about....

... the startup plumbing/heating company? Yes, many established businesses have all the work they can handle just by word of mouth and reputation, but new businesses often need those yellow page ads.

Ken_8

The last person to need a YP ad

is a newbie. He sure as heck won't have money for an ad if he is starting out, that's for sure.

And nobody these days just wakes up some morning as says, "I think I'll start a business today."

Most of us who started a new business did it because we started making more money doing it than our regular 8 to 4 gig and new we could live off what was happening. Some bought in, some inhereited it.

I repeat, the biggest waste of money a Newbie could engage would be an ad in the YP.

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Weezbo

My ad looks like a stamp:)

i donate a few bucks for the little leauge and stuff i put my company name on it with no phone # ) WHo needs More work!:))

ScottMP

Not advertising

Is like waving in the dark, your the only one who knows what your doing !

Now SMART advertising, thats a reliable source of new income.
I have Never had a large yellow page adv. I just have the line item. We Do on the other advertise in the small local phone books, and let me tell you I have Plenty of long term good paying customers who had No where to turn and found my advertisment. They wanted some one local. Like anything, its the first perception and good quality work will keep a customer once the initial contact is made.

Name recongnition with a strong destinctive logo also is part of the picture. " I see your trucks everywhere ! ". Maybe, or maybe they just see the same one because they all look the same. Brand recongnition.

Ken, an argument could be made that your customer conversation could be used in reverse also. " Mr Jones our competitor dosn't make enough money to afford advertisment because they don't run a proffesional busness like ours. We are a full service company that is always available to you and we have a business that has a stronge presence in the community." Yadda yadda yadda. I think alot depends on your market and business plan as to who you want as customers.

Throwing money at a Yellow page ad. is not my idea of a good use of an advertising budget. Your advertising for your competitor not for your customer. The customers are confused as to who to call. Find another opurtunity to reach the same customer base that none of the other "sheep" are using. Let these people know who you are and what you do. They may be disappointed in the company they are using.

MY two cents.

Scott






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hr

I like your thinking Scott

I actually just went into YP this summer after 9 years without. Just the small bold three liner. Mainly I wanted to show my company as a "radiant and hot water heating" pro. Only 1 other ad in the heating listings advertizes radiant.

I also hired a part timer to help me, I want to boost calls, and the ad has alrerady pulled in a bunch.

YP is just another cost of doing business like licenses, association dues, insurance, etc. Doesn't need to be the large full page YP ad to work, it just needs to show your available and different from the rest.

I'll bet more folks shop the small ads than the large shock and awe color one pagers, especially for specialists

hot rod

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Dave Yates (PAH)

like minds

We too maintain a minimal YP & YB presence. The bulk of our advertising budget goes to local theaters, orginization bulletins/programs and school functions. In addition, we've often sponsored youth sports teams and paid for banners on outfield fencing. It's a good thing to keep the money local. I tend to do business with other firms who do likewise.

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Ted_9

The bigger yellows have given us plenty of business. We should have signed on sooner.

jack_22

YP Ads

The company I work for has a small listing in the YP to get customers to call us. We offer 24/7 service, it just costs more in the evening, and more yet late nights and holidays. We are one of a VERY few companies in the area which when you dial our number, you talk to a real live person no matter what time or day it is. The answering servive explains our rates, and the customer decides whether it is an emergecy. They are told someone will call them back in less than one hour. The answering service then pages the on-call tech. We have enlarged our customer base with this method. The customer has the peace of mind knowing if they really need help, we are there.