Suspended Plate Radiant-PGP

Paul Pollets

to install the Wirsbo aluminum Joist Trak. This project is 900 SF main floor in a log cabin. It took 77 man hrs to install 280 plates and 1300 ft 3/8" hePEX. We built a jig to hold (2) plates at a time in the joist bay, but for sure, this is a labor-intensive mission. We install the system on a rolling Baker scaffold, which saves time and "ladder legs". Also installing 5 wall panel radiators.

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Dan Foley

Hours

Nice work, Paul. We do a lot of joist Trak. 77 hours seems like a lot. Did it include the supply/return runs, manifold connections and boiler piping? -DF

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Ron Huber

Time is monney

Paul,
Are you screwing the plates up, or nailing? Pounding the tube in with a mallet, or using a palm nailer?
that is a long time for that area.

Paul Pollets

It included

prep time, plates and tubing, manifold installation and pipig to boiler. We've done the double extruded plates much faster. Yes, we use a rubber mallet and a screw gun to put up the plates.

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hr

Ouch on the time

Paul, are you sure?

hot rod

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Dan_9

Joist track Installation

What an exemplary job. Your customery must be pleased. It has been my experience that installing any type of joist heating is labor intensive and is often underestimated in terms of actual time to properly install. In this job I see attention to detail that goes hand in hand with time. Screws through the track are evenly and equally spaced. Eight screws per track. That makes 4 screws per foot of tubing. It appears that the top of joist blocking had to be removed for the track and pipe to go through. Plus, working overhead is slow even with rolling scaffolding and jigs. All this plus the drilling and pulling of tubing through holes. Plus supply and return piping. It is no surprize to me that this section of the work could easily take 2 men 5 days to do.

hr

77 hours

at the labor rates I Think Paul gets for his top notch work...go figure.

hot rod

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Paul Pollets

estimating

I actually estimated 64 man hrs for the work, but in real costs, with journeyman and helper, it came in $47.00 under the labor costs, despite the increase to 77MH. Not bad. If there's got to be an easier way to put up the plates...I'd like to know it. My journeyman is an ex-union sheetmetal worker and I worked one zone my self, just to make sure of how fast one could go. It's a slow deal. Extruded plates install at 2x the speed.

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John Felciano

Plates

Paul,Are you useing automatic screw guns to install them?

We had a man hour rate of two minutes per track just to hang it.Includes setup but not tubing and hole drilling.

hr

It's in the air, Paul

if you plan on more plate installs get, or rent, a pneumatic stapler or nailer. A huge timesaver and you can still make it look as pretty as your screwed on plates.

I still prefer the ThermoFin for new installs as the 8 foot lengths speed the install up also. I made a jig to allow one or two guys to align and blast them up.

I was in denial about the air powered palm nailer until I tried one! As fast as you can slide your hand along the track it will set the tube in. I feel it drives the tube in much better, than a mallet, with those rapid blows.

I find PAP works best, especially in wide open spaces like that.

Good ear protection is a MUST when using air tools in a joist bay like that, or your ears will ring for hours same with safety glasses of course.

I set the compressor nail gun and plates all on the scaffold botom level and can roll around from top side, very easy with two workers, do-able with one. A good clean swept floor helps the scaffold roll freely.

Send me an airline ticket on you next job, I'll bring tools. I still owe Jeff and you a favor from SLC REX show.

hot rod

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Paul Pollets

I may do that!!

I should have imported you. Next time....I do have (2)pnematic crown staplers and use them exclusively on the extruded plates. I didn't even try it on the JoistTrac.

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hr

Aren't the Joist Trak

the heavier extruded plates offered by Wirsbo? I believe they are the RTI version of the extruded plate.
Does Wirsbo still off the thin single and double Heat Emission Plate?

hot rod

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Paul Pollets

single plates

thin aluminum single plates are still available. I wanted to use the heavier stock.

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Unknown

I was confused too

Joist trak is an extruded plate. What are the "extruded plates" that install much faster? Or were you accidentally calling the lightweight plates "extruded"?
_______________________________

Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC

Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
NRT@maine.rr.com

Paul Pollets

extruded plates

the "double groove" extruded plates that were available in 3/8" or 1/2". the plates are 2' long and 14"w. they're still available, and I'll use them next time.

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Unknown

ah

I believe you are misusing the term. Those plates are not thick gauge extruded aluminum, they are lightweight pressed aluminum I believe. Totally different output. They are middle ground between extruded plates and no plates.

We use similar plates all the time, but check your required outputs and desired water temperatures to make sure they are adequate; they don't have the same output as joist trak.
_______________________________

Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC

Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
NRT@maine.rr.com