Wiring Help

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

We are installing a new boiler, zone valves, zone valve controller and thermostats at a day care center in Berkeley. We have only three wires between the Taco ZVC (zone valve controller) in the mechanical room and the new 4-wire zone valves that are remote, far away from the mechanical room.

I may have to remove the Danfoss zone valves and install B & G 3-wire zone valve if we can't use the three existing wires; has anyone done this?

Alan

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J.C.A._3

The manual....

That comes inside the ZVC has diagrams for wiring all types of zone valves. I believe the drawing inside the cover does also.

When /if you can't find what you need there, a peak at the Taco wiring book will put all questions to rest. (an invaluable source of information!). Chris

Unknown

Alan

Here is a copy of the diagram from the Taco Wiring Manual. Provided the 4-wire Zone Valves you have are self-closing, I don't see any reason why you can't wire them as 2 wire valves and jumper the #3 and #4 terminals at the relay and utilize the dry contacts to fire the boiler as shown. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Wiring

Thanks, J.C.A. and Glenn. It still doesn't solve my problem.

I've got 3 wires to play with. They start in the boiler room and run 20-40 feet out to the thermostat and then about 5 feet to the zone valve in the closet. Two of the three wires carry 24 volts to the thermostat and when it calls for heat, it sends 24 volts to the zone valve which opens, closing the end switch. So I've got 2 end switch wires, but only one available wire that goes back to the ZVC.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............
Can I jumper one of the 24 volt wires with an end switch wire at the zone valve?

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Mike Kraft_2

Question rephrased.............

can you do it without letting the smoke out,hmmmmmmmmmmm

I'll dig around Alan.

cheese

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

What are you smoking,

Cheese. I'm going to call the Milford narcs.

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Unknown

Hmmmm

I see your dilemma Alan. Got yourself a bit of a problem there.

Glenn

Glenn Harrison_2

I'm no expert onTaco Zone Panels, but...

if I read Glenn Stanton's/Taco's diagram, you can take one motor wire and one end switch wire, tie them together and send them to #2 on the panel, send the other motor wire to #1 on the zone panel, and the other end switch wire to #3 on the panel, and leave #4 empty. That's how the Taco three wire zone valve is wired in the diagram.

If you want, e-mail Joe Mattiello, Tech Services, Taco, and fellow Wallie @ joemat@taco-hvac.com

Paul Rohrs

Danfoss Zone Valves

The names have been changed to protect the innocent....

Wirsbo's is the same 4 terminal setup, albeit a little different. Your 3-wire ZV sounds like it is power to open, power to close, 1 end switch. to complete the end switch circuit on Taco's ZVC, I still think you need to run the 3rd wire and jumper 3&4. (Is this re-stating Glenn Stanton's statement?)

Regards,

PR

Mark J Strawcutter

turning 4 wire into 3

At the zone valve, connect/jumper the wire that brings switched 24v from the thermostat to one of the motor contacts and one of the end-switch contacts.

Then wire it up to the panel just like a 3-wire zone valve.

Mark

Mark J Strawcutter

which is what you were proposing to do originally

If I follow the taco diagram Glenn posted, I'd connect the two thermostat leads to TT and the single return from the end switch to terminal 3 for the zone. 1,2 and 4 would be empty, no jumpers.

Mark

Paul Rohrs

Power Stealing T-Stats

aren't power stealing thermostats going to draw to much from the 24V and cause a problem?

Is this pic what you are suggesting?

PR

Unknown

Paul

Most of Alan's problem is that there are only 3 conductors from the zone panel to each remote thermostat and zone valve. The current at the TT connections of the zone panel is just one leg of current being sent out to the thermostat and then switched back to activate the relay. If my memory serves me correct, I believe there is a resistor in that circuit, so that leg wouldn't be able to be used to activate the zone valve 2,3 or 4-wire because he needs a 24v hot and neutral from 1 and 2 of the zone panel to the zone valve. Thus, a need for 4 conductors when there are only 3. Another way around it would involve transformers at each remote location, but I doubt he has line voltage available at that remote point.

Glenn

S Davis

Zone Valves

Are you firing domestic hot water off your zone controler in wich case you need priority?
If not just get rid of the zone controller and wire power and common out to the stat, power through stat to zone valve,common to zone valve, jumper from 24 volt power at zone valve to one side of end switch and the other wire back to boiler for signal to fire a double pole double throw relay for boiler t&t and your pump.
And if you do need priority do the same for your hot water auquastat but use a extra relay to drop power to your other zone valves.

S Davis


Apex Radiant Heating

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Wiring

I think Glenn Stanton and S Davis got it right. The trick is to use one leg of the 24 volts as the non-switched leg of the end switch.

Mark Strawcutter: We won't be able to use the T-T terminals because, like Glenn said, it's only one leg of the transformer. If we want to power the zone valve through the thermostat, we have to jumper T-T and pull 24 volts of terminals 1 and 2. For this reason, we probably won't use the ZVC controller; it would be a waste.

Thanks for all your help you guys. I'll let you know how many transformers we burn out in this experiment.

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Mr. Bill

Wires

If you have a 4 wire Danfoss zone valve,2 wires are for the end switch.However relay box like the Taco unit provide a end switch function so you can ignore the 2 end switch wires on the actuator.

So wire it like the 2 wire zone vale shown on the Taco diagram.

hydronicsmike

Alan,

are you using power stealing thermostats (digital with two wires only), or are you using regular thermostats with min. 3 wires?

Call me if you want.

Mike

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Still working

on it, but I think I've got it figured out (see above). As soon as I figure out how to scan my drawing, I'll post it.

Mr. Bill: We need the end switch signal to turn on the boiler.

Mike: The thermostats are White-Rogers 1F80-261, 2 wire, not power stealing.




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Unknown

Alan

Gave this some thought and came up with this. But it will require a 24v ice cube relay for each zone valve. Whaddya think?

Glenn

Mark J Strawcutter

why the relay for each zone?

couldn't you just hook up all the end switches to a single relay?

Mark

Unknown

The End Switch

is switching 24v and you don't want that bucking the leg of 24v being sent out of TT of the boiler relay or you might get a little smoke.

Glenn

Unknown

I suppose

that they could be wired this way also, eliminating the isolation relays. I still would prefer to see the isolation relay because when you start combining extra transformers and other zones, things tend to start smoking. And we all hate to see that happen. Iso-Relays are cheap insurance against bucking voltages.

Glenn

S Davis

Relay

Thats Pretty Much What I said above, but why not just run each end switch back to one Ice Cube relay it would make it a lot easier.

S Davis


Apex Radiant Heating

Unknown

That would make sense too!

.....provided the polarity of all the wires coming back doesn't get mixed up. Sometimes things can get real complicated with a bunch of low voltage wires coming back from remote locations. Thanks.

Glenn

Mark J Strawcutter

this is what I was suggesting

when I asked why you wanted a relay for each zone

Mark

Mark J Strawcutter

I'm not saying

eliminate the relay, just that you don't need one for each zone. Just one for the system.

mark

Glenn Harrison_2

I think this will work with the Zone Panel

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry the pic is so basic. I'm not very good with paint.

John Abbott

you could ...

also use Wirsbo #A3030009 zone control module they come with wiring instrutions for either 3 or 4 wire zone valves very simple quite inexpensive.I use them all the time with 3 wire and 4 wire zone zone valves. In this case just connect one end switch wire to the common wire at the zone valve (the one that isn't broken through the thermostat) then wire per 3 wire diagram you can put up to 4 zone valves on each module and the boiler enable contacts are dry.Very easy to wire and they have LED's which help with trouble shooting.

John

Joe Mattiello

Taco 571-2

The Taco, 571-2 three wire zone valve will work. Additionally, you might want to try calling danfoss, about installing a jumper between the power side of the valve and the end switch, similar to wiring a four terminal ESP four terminal valve, with the 570 series three terminal valve. I’m sure they have a good technical support staff eager to help you like Taco, prides itself on.

Joe Mattiello
Technical Service Technician

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Glenn

Thanks for the diagrams. I like the first one the best because it seems that you need both legs of the transformer to power the relay.

Alan

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