customer won't pay

Bob Bona_4

This is a classic. I did a radiant slab job-just tubing to manifolds for now- for a new contractor for his 2000 sq ft shop in April. He beat me down in price saying he would supply a laborer for a day to save money. We agreed on a price. Job broke fast, I did the work next day, I was only supplied the laborer for 2 hours ( he was busy busting rocks on the site) but he did help and so that was cool. Now comes time to collect. NOT!

Been over 90 days..3 invoices, registered mail,no return calls, last week my bookeeper faked him out by bypassing his caller ID, and the guy tells her "he thought his accountant paid it already". Right.

Today I get this e-mail.

"Dear Bob, The issue I have been struggling with is that I feel totally gouged for the work you did. The amount you billed for a minimally demanding 8 hour day is ridiculous. I looked into the material cost, and it hardly offset the cost of the job. I can't understand why you feel entitled to 100's of dollars an hour. I liked you and you could have been easily hired to do the whole project but I felt you would have been totally unrealistic about what you would have charged based on the first task I had given you. I am prepared to pay you immediately for a fair amount. If you are not willing to compromise, then fine, I am prepared to fight about it. Even if I pay 120 per hour (twice the going rate of heating people)I don't think you could hit $XXXX. Show me your material cost. I am in the trades and work hard for my money. let me know what you want to do. Yours, ****"

This is word for word. Of course I shot him an email assuring him that I was not "ripping" him off, and I went into great detail all that goes on concerning this "minimal labor". We'll see.

Typical. Buyers. Remorse. Without a clue.

Ken_8

You forgot the most essential detail of your post...

Did you have a written and signed contract?

Was the document specific enough to define EXACTLY what you were to do, when you were to do it and how? Were the terms (deposit, time payment was due clauses and failure to pay penalties) included within the four corners of the document? Was the "helper" clause also part of the contract?

Without a written agreement, I urge you to negotiate your best deal and get the check tomorrow.

Without a bona fide written contract, you will be lucky to get 50-cents on the dollar. Take what you can get, cut your losses and start re-thinking how you do business.

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gerry gill

i'd take him to court,

and dont settle out...get your judgement..he probably still wont pay, then go after his property, credit report, etc..make him miserable..but then again, i'm kind of vindictive...

Bob Bona_4

the post

is more about the ongoing misconception of this trade. Because we don't wear 3 piece suits, means that anything we charge is exhorbitant, and since we make things look easy (sometimes, anyway), this must be a occupation that warrants little pay.

Thanks for the tip on biz Ken..:)

Paul Pollets

I agree...

without a signed contract, you're not going to get far. You can try and file a mechanic's lien immediately, and hope for the best.

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Paul Mitchell_2

He is the problem

Obviously he does not think you are worth the money...I would do the best you can. He is the same guy that will hound you when the shop doesnt heat up in 30 minutes....After he doesnt pay you what you deserve. I hardly do any work for "contractors" because they know everything. Why do they need us if they could do it. The other post is correct I hope you have a contract...at least...Time for a face to face visit.

Grumpy_2

Occupancy permit??

Is the heating permit in your name? If it is, notify the building department in writing that you will not be seeking a final inspection approval until some "legal issues" are settled. They are not supposed to issue an occupancy permit for the structure until all the inspectors have signed off. If everyone acts according to the rules, you will get your money or the builder won't get to use his facility. If they do issue the occupancy permit after your written notification, then you have the right to sue the chief building official for malfeasance of duty and to seek compensation. Of course if there is no permit, you're screwed! No written contract, you're screwed. But on the bright side, an expensive lesson like this is usually learned only once!

Weezbo

Well said Grumpy..Well said.

This is true statement ...

S Davis

1099

If he does not pay check with your accountant, in washington state you can claim a loss at the end of the year and deduct it from your taxes and send him a 1099 for the amount of the bill and it is taxable income for him.
Been there done that.

S Davis


Apex Radiant Heating

Matt_21

i just love

these type of customers whether they are contractors or homeowners. they obviously thought the price was fair when you originally gave it to them or they would have hired someone else. then they try and screw you in the end. they way i see it is you have 2 options.
1. negotiate and try to at least get your material & labor costs covered and walk away with the lesson of using contracts in the future.
2. go to his shop remove the manifolds and cut the tubing off at the floor. blow some expanding foam into the tubes so he has to chop up the floor to get them fixed by someone else. obviously this isn't a good direction to go in but it certainly makes you feel better thinking about it. on 1 or 2 occasions, we have actually pulled the condensing units off the job until we got paid.

Darin Cook_3

How to get your money or at least ........ Vengeance

Sorry almost started thinking out loud. But there are some great "Black Ops" that can be run when the other people have thought all is " forgotten ".



P.S. Heating Help. com in no way condones these actions or is responsible for what troubled individuals like myself write.

Randy Tibbits

This builder is a scam artist. If he had really felt he was overcharged, he would have contacted you immediatly. He waited and waited the longer it is owed the harder it is to collect. He planned to do this from the start. He will do it to the guy that installs the boiler too.

eleft_4

customer won't pay

Bob,
Unfortunate about builders and subs, the subs generally finance the project with out collecting what is due them and don't even get interest for the loan!
It hasn't change since 1947 when my Dad started repairing contractors heavy equipment.

Sorry to say it's "Tuition", al

john_27

several of these posts are highly emotional...

and maybe understandably so(no one likes to be taken advantage of)...but they are offering you bad advice......don't take apart the jobsite(in fact stay away from it), and most certainly don't do as a previous post suggested and play the "1099" game(because no actual money has changed hands, and the value of the loss has not been adjudicated by a third party-which is really important-a business loss must have independent verification to be valid. You do have some choices--1.seek a judgement 2.go to binding arbitration(very inexpensive in cases of this sort), 3.seek a meeting with a lawyer present to hash out the issues.....he is offering you money.....problem is how to get him to an amount acceptable to you...but stay professional at all times

hr

Ask him

what he feels is the "right amount" He probably won't shot his top number, negotiate him up from his number a bit and take the loss. Doesn't seem paying and attorney or burning more time in a lawsuit will get you real far without something in writting. He had a plan from the get go, I suspect

A lesson learned!

hot rod

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Mellow_2

no win

this man thinks we make 50 bucks or less an hour. The court might rule in your favor but if not you might not see anything $$$$$$. We in the feild have been known for taking less for our work. This is not right.....we deal with this type of person all the time (builders) and are forced into lossing money. The good cust. will give a deposit on the work and not haggle too much over cost. They see the value and we get a relationship going, with them. This makes the cust. want our work, not just anyone. We as a group of tradesmen have a six sense, listen to it. When you want to do the work more than the cust. wants it done and the are talking price, price,price.......... they only see money. Think about it........................If someone you just met came into your home and sayed they were going to take more than you wanted to spend to give you something you needed but didn't want. what would you do??? I would kick them out!!!but if your best friend came in and showed you how much better your life would be with a new system and explained the differance in the quality of your life changing for the better......Most people want that....screw cost.