thermaboard?

Matt_21

someone posted a thread last week about a wood radiant floor panel that incorporated the sub floor panel. i thought it was thermaboard but i can't remember. please help.

Constantin

Perhaps you're thinking of Warmboard?

They have the patent on the whole thing. 1¼" thick subfloor with radiant heating grooves built into a aluminized top. Were I to build a new house with radiant heat, this is the product I'd use to speed construction. I'm just a homeowner, but a friend who has installed radiant in plenty of houses in ME thinks warmboard is the best thing since sliced bread.

Their website is at Warmboard.com

The only downside I see with the product is that the panels are very heavy (almost 2x thicker than the traditional &frac34" plywood boards used normally. On the other hand, the thickness also allows you to support the stuff on 24" centers instead of the standard 16". So you may save some lumber that way.

Lastly, you'll probably have to cover the warmboard with something until you can install the finished floor. Otherwise, you may puncture the PEX tubing with an errant nail laying around, etc. (IIRC, they advocate installing the PEX right after installing the boards).

Matt_21

thanks for

> They have the patent on the whole thing.

> 1¼" thick subfloor with radiant heating

> grooves built into a aluminized top. Were I to

> build a new house with radiant heat, this is the

> product I'd use to speed construction. I'm just a

> homeowner, but a friend who has installed radiant

> in plenty of houses in ME thinks warmboard is the

> best thing since sliced bread.

>

> Their website

> is at _a

> href="http://www.warmboard.com"_Warmboard.com_/a_

> The only downside I see with the product is that

> the panels are very heavy (almost 2x thicker than

> the traditional &frac34" plywood boards used

> normally. On the other hand, the thickness also

> allows you to support the stuff on 24" centers

> instead of the standard 16". So you may save some

> lumber that way.

>

> Lastly, you'll probably have

> to cover the warmboard with something until you

> can install the finished floor. Otherwise, you

> may puncture the PEX tubing with an errant nail

> laying around, etc. (IIRC, they advocate

> installing the PEX right after installing the

> boards).

Matt_21

thanks for

your help this is what i was looking for. i would be concerned with the fact after it is layed down, all of the framing, rough mep, sheetrocking, etc. still has to be completed. i would expect the alum. must take quite a beating or else you have to lay another layer of wood on top of the alum.

hr

My WB experience

having done two complete homes and a couple additions... I wait to the very end to install the tube. Ideally just before the finished flooring goes down. It takes some planning to assure you can get back to manifold locations, etc. Very simple with crawl space jobs

It is much easier to protect the panels without the tube installed. Some custom homes in this area are under construction for a year or more.

One job, 4000 square feet, had four large stone fireplaces in the home. Stone masons are the toughest on the floor, between scaffolding and dropped rocks!

I devised a quick cleaning procedure for the grooves consisting of a 5/8" copper fitting cleaning brush and a large shop vac. I just pushed the brush through all the grooves as the vac cleaned out all the nails, cement, sheetrock dust, tobacco spit, etc.

I'd like to see WB ship it with a protective coating that could be peeled off, like you see on new cars on the train transporters. It would also help with the slippery surface, as a little sawdust on that aluminum surface makes for some "slide for life" trips. Rain makes it slippery also.

I have a bag full of WB tricks gleaned from these 4 jobs, custom router jigs, methods for filling un used grooves, repair procedures, etc. if you need more info.

Always good to consult with someone that has walked the walk

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Matt_21

did you send

your floor plan to warmboard so they can layout the panels in relation to the walls or did you lay it out yourself. i only ask because your picture shows some of the tubing going under the walls and i didn't know if that was intentional. i would think it would make it tough to lay the tubing if you have to pull the whole length of the tube under the framing. i haven't checked on pricing yet but i assume the cost is more than a 3/4" subfloor of plywood and a radiant panel system. i'm assuming the savings is in the labor since it all gets installed at once. my last question is what if you lay down the whole floor, each room is a zone, and then they change the sizes of the rooms so now part of one zone is now partially into another zone. i'm just asking because we are starting a house in the next month and the owners keep resizing the rooms.

hr

Excellent questions, Matt

and you are right on regarding the tube under the walls. Good eye!

They moved the walls after the home was framed, in this case. An owners "walk through" resulted in moving of several bath and closet walls. Although the tube does thread under walls easily, I would not recommend it.

Warmboard does an excellent layout and CAD design for your job. BUT things change often in custom home building, as you well know.

In all honesty my next WB job, for a customer, I would use turn panels on both ends of the layout then custom router all my interior turns when the walls were " set in stone" I ended up routering a ton of special turns on this job, hense my experience with the custom templetes I built and my routering "speed secrets" (carbide bits with spares on hand, and the most HP your budget can afford when router shopping for WB work

I'd look the floor plan and intended zoneing over very carefully when considering WB. Angled walls are a drag, floor registers for FA/ AC can be a drag as they require a special "jog around" router templete, among others glitches.

The labor is passed on to the framing contractor, which helps make the numbers work out with WB. Make sure they (the framers) are on board with the WB when they bid. It really is not a lot more work to install WB, but "fireball" bid by the square foot framers will whine at any surprise thrown their way. Flying shards of aluminum are the biggest nuisence. Good wrap around safety glasses are a must when cutting WB!

Certainly a HVAC contractor could install a small addition or remodel with WB. I wouldn't recommend decking an entire home without tools and experience in this arena. And typically the framers would not want a "plumber" in the middle of their framing job!

Transfer plates above, or below the floor can be competitive, but that too depends on acess and obstacles presented by plumbing, electrical, and HVAC "stuff" Performance is very close with a slight edge to WB with an entire aluminum layer to conduct just below the finish flooring. It comes down to the labor rate of the person doing the install.

The job, and your comfort level, will dictate which produt is the best match, there is no one size fits all in radiant. That's what makes it so fun and challenging

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jerry scharf_2

how do you run the tubes under walls and straps

Hotrod,

I'd love to hear more. In particular, they say to install the tubing first and build the walls over that. I'd be much happier to do it the other way, but I have some annoying situations with straps that run over sections of the tracks.

thanks,
jerry

hr

It can be done

if you keep the tube up high in the groove to pull under the wall. Works best with two!

In a few cases I have cut out a section of the bottom plate and nailed it in after threading the tube.

Not sure what you mean by straps? If they are metal with a sharp edge, I'd be reluctant to pull the pex under it.

Pex al pex, by the way, is a nice tube to use with WB. It holds the end loop much better and stays in the groove best.

It also makes nice "fill ins" for un-used grooves where carpet and pad is applied directly on WB.

I'll dig out some WB scraps tomorrow and show some demos. Getting late, and dark here

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

browser

thermaboard is from Warmzone

Thanks all for the excellent information. I just want to point out that thermaboard is a similiar product to warmboard made with 5/8" panels, 3/8" channels. The makers are Warmzone.http://www.warmzone.com
By the way,
has anyone ever heard of making there own diffuser fins? I can get scrap lithograph plates for scrap cost, but they are hard to form and a little thin (.015")

Stevo

Warmboard and walls......................

That's what we've found to be the stickler with Warmboard. You really have to get the tubing down before the framers stand exterior and interior walls that cover tubing runs. Watch out for Masonry fireplaces and kitchen islands also If you and the General communicate well it makes it easier. (Remember your on a team) We're going on our third Warmboard install at the moment and it's not THAT heavy! Just watch out when it's windy!!!
I think i speak for all of us when i say we'd Love to see your tricks and custom Templates Hot Rod!!
Stevo