What do you think of \"Warmboard\"?

Ken_8

besides "Warmboard"?

We have a client who needs this method of pre-grooved sub-flooring and I know many of you dappble in this method of radiant heat applications.

I've never had to do it before - always finding better alternatives. My three "faves" are out (tubing in mud under tile, staple up, and in concrete.

Who makes it and who make the best. Why is the brand you like "the best."

Thanks

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jerry scharf_2

I think it's patented

Ken,

Warmboard has the patent for the combined subfloor and radiant distribution. I don't know of anyone else that has licensed the patent. There are lots of other manufacturers who have systems to put radiant over top of subfloor, some with relatively small thicknesses.

hope that helps,
jerry

Ken_8

Very interesting,

So you're saying there is no direct competetion for pre-grooved and pre-aluminum (or any conductor) forms of structurally sound underlayment that serves as a true "sub-floor" other than "Warmboard"?

I assumed something so un-unique would be a "public domain" type material.

But then, what do I know.

Thanks for the info. Guess I'm stuck with WB or nuttin'

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ScottMP

Ken

How about Stadler Climate panel ?

Or Wirsbo Quick Trac, which is the same product ?

Is this what you are talking about ? Its not structural like warmboard. 1/2" plywood.

We use Stadler all the time, keep some in the shop for small jobs and order more for big jobs. Use's 5/16 tubing and they just came out with a 3/8 tubing. Nice neat product and I would say the majority of our jobs are done this way.

Scott

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Unknown

correct

Warmboard is the only product that is subfloor and radiant in one. Other panel systems go on top of a seperate subfloor.
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Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
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Glen

roth panels

I have used warmboard - it lives up to it's claims and works beautifully. It is fully structural so no subfloor is needed. If you don't need the structrual certification then I would look at Roth panels. Same idea but the alum skin is pressed into a polystrene plastic (??) that offers some R value.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

That's exactly what patent rights are all about! You can't just say, "Anyone could have thought of this." The actual inventor may or may not get their just deserves, but that's another matter...

Modern patents are often a generality that lists quite a number of ways to achieve a single objective. While only one may be employed in the actual device produced, protection is afforded for the other methods as well.

Ken_8

Glen,

What methods did you (or do you) use to prevent the radiant heat from migrating into the Warmboard wood sheating and then into the joist bay below?

Being that the actual finished floor on top of the Warmboard is what we want to heat, what prevents the almost equi-distant from the "sandwiched" aluminum conductor layer to the intended living space, from simply radiating to the air void and the ceiling rock below the joists?

After all, once the finished floor is applied, the energy could just as easily pass downward as upward!

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Unknown

not actually true

The aluminum is mostly on top of the warmboard. Unless your finished flooring is equivalent to more than 1" of plywood, it's not "equidistant".

However, I would put some R value in the joists over unheated space in any case, and a small amount of R in the joists if the finished flooring has a higher R like carpeting.
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Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
NRT@maine.rr.com

Ken_8

I was afraid of that answer...

So I not only have to use warmboard as a subflooring material, I also have to insulate the underside to keep the heat in the surface above to enjoy the benefits?

Not happenin' I wonder what effect putting 1" rigid foam down first ion the joist tops before putting the subfloor might have? I realize the 16" o.c. contact points may exceed the rigid's ability to withstand the "moment of contact," but if the Warmboard is screwed down - rather than nailed...

I'm getting a migrane.

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Unknown

well

The insulation requirements are for radiant of *any* kind. If you have a high R floor covering, you want to preserve performance for the floor above. The plywood inherent in warmboard would give you around a 1.5 R value and you could consider the dead airspace of the joist as well, assuming it's sealed in with a finished ceiling for the floor below, which should be an adequate underside R value for a hardwood floor installation on top.

The insulation requirements under warmboard would be the lowest of any dry installation method though, with its aluminum as close as possible to the floor surface as opposed to the other dry panels in which is is below the wood of the prefab panel. There are a few exceptions like Raupanel there but they are not structural subfloors if that is a problem.

All the above assumes that the space under the floor is heated. If it's not, insulation is a definite must, of course, whether you are using radiant or not I would hope.
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Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
NRT@maine.rr.com

Glen

insulation

Unfortunately - we were unable to insulate under the warmboard. This install was over open beams with 2x6 prefinished cedar planking (as the celing material below) - the architect did not allow for any insulated space under. We have compensated by using temps at the upper end of the warmboard recommendations and to date the home owner is pleased with the warmth.