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Buderus G115 vs. Viessmann Vitola

MassDave
MassDave Member Posts: 14
How should I think about the Buderus G115 vs. a Viessmann Vitola oil fired boiler (hot water radiator (gravity conversion) setup (boiler replacement), heat loss ~70,000 BTU)?

Can you justify the $$ difference for the Viessmann over a Buderus? Is it significantly more efficient (lower cost of operation), longer lasting, easier to service? All the info I can find compares the Viessmann to old US boilers, not to something like a Buderus, which seems to share many of the advantages of a Viessmann vs. older equipment...(I'm trying to justify a $3K difference in cost). So far I've heard great things about both companies.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

Comments

  • MassDave
    MassDave Member Posts: 14
    Buderus G115 vs. Viessmann Vitola

    > How should I think about the Buderus G115 vs. a

    > Viessmann Vitola oil fired boiler (hot water

    > radiator (gravity conversion) setup (boiler

    > replacement), heat loss ~70,000 BTU)?

    >

    > Can you

    > justify the $$ difference for the Viessmann over

    > a Buderus? Is it significantly more efficient

    > (lower cost of operation), longer lasting, easier

    > to service? All the info I can find compares the

    > Viessmann to old US boilers, not to something

    > like a Buderus, which seems to share many of the

    > advantages of a Viessmann vs. older

    > equipment...(I'm trying to justify a $3K

    > difference in cost). So far I've heard great

    > things about both companies.

    >

    > Thanks for any

    > assistance you can provide.



    ...forgot to mention, I'd be going with the Logamatic 2107 controller for the Buderus or the Vitotronic 200 for the Viessmann.
  • Wild Bill
    Wild Bill Member Posts: 112
    Viessmann vs. Buderus

    Hi,
    I feel compelled to throw my two cents in on this one. Both products are superior, in vessells as well as controls. In this case, however, unless you are using in floor radiant, I would suggest comparing the Viessmann Vitorond to the Buderus G115 (more apples to apples). The Vitola needs no low limit protection (you can't shock the boiler). The Vitola is probably the best boiler out there for radiant heat (IMHO). Back to the question at hand, while both products are EXCELLENT,my choice would be the Vitorond. I feel it boils downs to the Vitorond having better cast iron design. Check out the product on Viessmann's web site.

    Good Luck,
    Wild Bill
  • Bill Nye
    Bill Nye Member Posts: 221
    I happen to

    like the Viessmann better. The Vitola Bifferal is a fine German engineered piece of equipment. It is a steel boiler with cast iron rings pressed into the center on the fire side with a stainless steel combustion chamber.

    It will not condense and won't be shocked by cold return water. With a gravity system you will have cold return water.

    I would believe the Viessmann would cost more , but $3K?. Shop for a better price. You can still have Viessmann, the Vitorond is comparable to the Buderus and is maybe only $200 more. It is a cast iron sectional boiler and is very similar to the buderus.

    The viessmann control is a little more advanced, it depends on what you need. The 2107 is good too, but the viessmann has more bells and whistles.
  • Mike Kraft_2
    Mike Kraft_2 Member Posts: 398
    I'm a Buderus man

    I have installed the Vitola.It is quite a machine.But the bottom line is just where your mind has gone.What will the apples to apples efficiencies be.When the dust settles.....the same.The Vitola allows any return temperature to pass through its HX and it won't condense the flue gases.The 2107 will stop circulation when dew point temperature is eveident,"Pump Logic".The 2.5 horizontal passage through the 115's HX is wonderful.

    You cannot go wrong with either pick.........but 3K buys a bit of oil even in todays high priced fuel market.

    cheese
  • Mike Norgan_3
    Mike Norgan_3 Member Posts: 105
    Vitola biferral by far

    Dave,
    My choice would be the Vitola, you said you are doing a gravity conversion, high mass boiler high mass system. I just install a VB2-40 on a old gravity back in October, I just talk to the home owner and he ask me if it was possible for the system to work to good, he was thrilled on how the system operated, and yes I almost broke my arm patting myself on the back [grin]. This was the first year the house has been comfortable.

    Mike Norgan

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  • You can't go wrong with those two

    They are both EXCELLENT conventional boilers. It's all about the installer and more importantly the oil service provider’s ability to preform routine maintenance on the equipment. Go with the technicians that have experience and factory specific training dealing with your brand of choice.

    I've received excellent customer service and training from both companies.
    If the choice were mine, I'd go with the Vitola. Justifying the price differential is easy once you have worked on both. From what I’ve seen, Viessmann’s quality is untouchable. However, 3K more sounds REALLY suspicious. Like the others said "shop around".

    If you asked me a year ago, I would have chosen the Buderus G115. I've learned a thing or two since then. I may change my mind tomorrow ;-)

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  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    My $.02

    The similarities between the two are as follows:

    They are both made in Germany and ............................................................................. that's about it.

    They are completely different animals in design and construction. Some above have pointed out that a better comparison would be a G115 and a Vitorond. Those are very similar in design. Standard 3-pass cast iron boilers that are both capable of running down to just above 100* with no condensation problems. Both of them do this by killing the pump when the boiler is firing below a given water temp. (Usually about 105*) Commonly known as pump logic. This method works very well for many applications. The down side to this is how they work in shoulder seasons. I'll try to describe what happens on a day like today (currently 54*) The outdoor reset controller{2107}tells the boiler it wants an average water temp of, lets say 106*. The actual water temp will run about 7-10 degrees either side of that, giving you a 96-116 spread. When the water temp drops below the pump logic temp the burner can't fire. The pump has to be turned off first. Now the burner comes on and drives the water temp up past the pump logic temp. The pump then turns back on. You can see that there is a little more wear and tear on the pump doing this. You can also understand that the heat emitters will swing through a 20* spread every time this happens. Is this a big deal? With certain types of systems (low mass) it can be due to temp swings.

    As for the Vitola, others have described the construction and design differences already so I won't go into those. The good Germans at Viessmann realized 20 years ago that low water temp operation was a major key to efficiency. They promptly went out and designed a boiler that would function safely at any water temp and the Vitola was born. It can run the pump and fire the burner at any water temp the OD controller is calling for. This means you can keep a much closer swing between your on/off temps. As an example...... (pardon me while I check to see what my water temp is) The boiler just ran and it's at 104* right now.It will probably drop to near 90 before turning on. The only other boilers that will do this are condensers.

    The Vitola is at the head of a class of one. Just for kicks I'll run a combustion test on mine {another pardon while I trek to the boiler room once more}........... Here's the results: burner fired at 89* boiler temp and ran to 106*,
    O2 = 4.2%, combustion efficiency at shut off 87.8%, (it started at 89.3 with begining water temp of 89*),
    CO2 = 9.3%, CO 14 ppm, flue gas temp at shut off 202.3*,

    This is a natural gas boiler, your results would probably be 2-3% higher efficency with oil due to the difference in the two fuels. You have to wonder what the real advantage of a condensing boiler would be with efficiencies like that......... But I'm wandering off track here.

    Suffice to say that if you want the best, it would be the Vitola hands down. For 90% of the time the G115 or the Vitorond will do just fine and but for a couple points on the efficiency you wouldn't know which one was running your system. The Vitola is a boiler for boiler geeks like myself and for those applications that call for its capabilities. With your high mass system I'd have to say the Vitola has some advantages but it's your money.

    BTW there is at least $3K difference in the cost of the two boilers with the control you mentioned according to my price lists.

    Enjoy, I hope I didn't bore you to tears.

    PS; As you can see from the stack temp a stainless liner is mandatory with the Vitola. A regualr flue will rot out in no time.
  • John Felciano
    John Felciano Member Posts: 411
    Viessmann

    Like others have said it's hard to compare the Vitola to the Buderus.They are two very different boilers.Viessmanns Vitoden is very simular to Buderus.

    Vitola is in a class of it's own and is the only boiler I'd ever install in my own home.Some of what sets it apart is it's high mass (perfect for a high mass syatem like yours)4" of insulation,You can put your hand on the top of this boiler and feel how cool it is.True low temperature,The Biferral design acts like a thermopane window to keep it from condensing.Superior control packages,Viessmanns own Vitotronic control does EVERYTHING you could ever want a control to do in a "plug & work" setup.(almost no field wireing needed)I could go on and on.

    Go with the Vitola you won't be disapointed.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
    Vitola

    I'm with Steve and John...The Vitola is a super boiler. Nobody's mentioned the burner selection....The Viessmann chassis burner outperforms any burner I've ever used, (both gas and oil), while the Buderus uses a Riello with the upgrade. I like Riello burners, but the chassis burner is easier to service, burns cleaner, and requires less maintainence.

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  • John Felciano
    John Felciano Member Posts: 411
    Burners

    Pauls right.Viessmanns burners are awesome!Their newly improved Vitoflame is a service mans dream.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
    John...

    I think you meant the "Vitorond" rather than the Vitodens.

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  • MassDave
    MassDave Member Posts: 14
    Wow - Thanks for all the advice...

    Wow. Lots of good advice.

    I know its unbelievable but I truly am still trying to decide between two very different animals.

    What I take away from the great feedback:
    - pretty consistent feedback that the Viessmann Vitola is the better designed equipment "of choice" (unique design, best solution from an engineering standpoint, great quality & company, but also most expensive - but "worth it")
    - going with the Buderus option is a decision to go with a conventional boiler design and thus limits the low temp my system can operate - it would save money over my current boiler setup with the control I'm looking at by allowing operation at lower than full temp, but only at temps down to condensation point (but there is still a limit (that the system manages to that temp with pump control)). So a bit less efficient about 10% of the time. Regardless, it's still equipment that is highly respected, just not in the same class.

    Feel free to correct me here if I misinterpreted some comments.

    The net of it is that if money was no issue I would go Viessmann hands down.

    Because I'm a new homeowner who could do a lot of other home improvements with the price differential, I'm still going to put some more thought into this one.

    Again, I'm trying to make the trade off between the premium up-front cost against the over-time value (savings) of "off-season" incremental efficiency from lower operating temps, less equipment wear, and better servicing costs (true?). Sheesh, tough one...the $$ are no small gap...

    Thanks again everyone

  • John Felciano
    John Felciano Member Posts: 411
    Dave

    Have you looked at Viessmann's Vitorond? Cost wise it's very close to Buderus's boiler line.It will alow you to use Viessmanns control package.If the Vitola isn't in the budget this would be my second choice.
  • bruce pirger
    bruce pirger Member Posts: 111


    I have the G115 70,000 BTU/HR boiler with the Riello BF3 burner. It has been great, since the relay in the BF3 was replaced.

    Now that it is summertime, my only call for heat is DHW...and that's just once or twice a day. So, the boiler supply temp will drop way down to 75-80 degrees.

    I've been told that is just fine...that the burn up to 150 will remove any condensation that occurs.

    Correct?

    So the advantage of the Vitola, which I considered, would be during the radiant season, only heating the hot water to say 120 tops for the infloor...with an occasional 160 run or so for DHW.

    Couldn't find anyone local who had heard of Viessmann....so went with the G115.
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