Every Darn Radiator except mine...

sarah_4

Hi folks, can anyone suggest where I should look? I can't find my radiators in Dan's EDR book or in the website library. The plug in the radiator's upper unused tapping says, "Gurney," the plug in the lower unused tapping says "US." The dimensions of the radiator don't match or look like the gurneys in the website library's catalog, nor do they match or look like any of the US Radiators Corp. radiators in EDR, though they superficially resemble the Tritons.

The radiators are three column, plain, no ornamentals, with the middle column wider than either of the side ones, measuring 22" high and 10" at the legs. the sections are 9".

I realize this is not much to go on but I'm hoping against hope that someone else out there has run into the same radiators and figured out what they were.

Thanks in advance!

Sarah

DanHolohan

Can you

post a photo?

Steamhead

Yes, please post a photo

These sound like standard column-type radiators, but we'll know for sure when we see them.

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Sarah_3

photo of radiators

I've attached one photo to this message. You can see four other photos here:

http://www.cls.yale.edu/vincent/radiators/

Thanks a lot!
Sarah

DanHolohan

Sarah,

I'd go with the Triton on page 112. These are on a hot water system, yes?

sarah_4

ok, I sized the ancient radiators...

and as predicted, they are are hugely oversized. thanks for your help, people!

According to the heatloss calc I did, the existing radiators are mostly 25% to 40% larger than needed, depending on the room. Even if I kept all the old radiators, the boiler has enough BTUs that I could add on several new radiators to this same boiler.

my questions now turn to efficiency variables:
Can I lower the water temp somewhat without running the risk of too-low a temperature creating condensation/acidic drip problems? I have heard this can be a problem in systems with giant cast iron rads? how low a temp would be still safe from this? does it make sense to do this at all in terms of efficiency?

(I used 170 degree water and multiplied the radiator sq footage by 150 when I did my radiator calcs.)

Is there a relationship between water temp/efficiency and how close I am to utilizing the boilers maximum but output?

the boiler's rated for water at 84,000 BTU/H (gross output is 97,000) and at the 170 degree temp, the actual and planned radiators add up to 66,800 BTUs.

I am planning to put thermostatic radiator valves on the most insanely oversized of the old radiators.

this is quite a learning process...thanks for taking the time to help a newbie.

sarah

Unknown

I've worked with systems like yours

The oversized radiators can be a benefit, rather than a problem. What you have for equipment and controls can make a big difference for not a lot of difference in cost.

Tekmar makes nice add-on controllers that protect the boiler, make the indirect water heater work, and vary the radiator temperatures, usually without changing much piping (remember, I don't know how your stuff is piped).

The more specific you can be about your equipment and piping, the better the quality of the answers you will see here.

Noel

Ken_8

Be still my heart!

Sarah,
If you don't have the most compelling argument for a condensing boiler here, I don't know what is...

Little tiny boilers that run at well over 90% efficiency would cut your fuel bill by a HUGE margin.

I don't recall ever seeing an older standing radiation system that was more suited to a new inexpensive condensing boiler than this one - ever!

Don't I recall some funky double tap being on the flip side of these rads?

Bottom line, if this is a water system, and 170 is the max required to heat the house, a TRV won't work unless you break into the supply or return lines - and install one there.

There should be a supply or return valve however already in place. If the system is mono-flo or 2-pipe R/R, an inexpensive ball valve could be set to slow the water flow - thereby reducing output. Piece of cake.

Am I confusing you?

That's okay. My wife tells me that all the time.

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DaveGateway

Ken,

Sounds like Sarah's got a good grip. A condensing boiler, piped pri-sec would probably save ton in fuel dollars. A problem with "find my rad" turns into "save this system", with a little "save the owner some money, thank you very much". The twin tap rads are unique to me. This couldn't have been gravity. Could it?

Sarah, was there a reason you queried about the radiator? Do you want to eliminate it?

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Ken_8

Tom,

I doubt it. Two half-inch tubes shot through a dbl tap bushing would not surprise me. It would have too much flow resistance to be gravity configured that way.

This whole thread is now blown out by the jpg file that exceeds the frame...

Anyhow, I suspect the DTbushing has no extension on one tapping and does have one on the other - that way ensuring complete bottom leg circulation. It's gravity okay within the rads themselves, but not boiler and piping gravity.

I could not imagine a better app for a condensing boiler.

Oh well.

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sarah_4

double taps and TRVs

Hey guys,

yeah, there are those weird-**** double taps on the
beasts. It may have been a gravity system once, but all the near-boiler piping is new, so there's no direct evidence. I was going to try to break into that double knot and re-pipe the supply to a higher tap, but in terms of simplicity, I like Ken's idea of simply putting a ball valve on the line in the basement and then closing it part way.

as for the condensing boiler argument, I think money might be the deciding factor for the time being. we are so in over our heads here (first-time homeowners, 150 year-old house, maxed out credit cards, tons of problems that didn't come up during the inspection (I have already had the nice surprise of having to completely redo the entire DWV system from foundation wall to roof)...you get the idea). Also, I've spent all my time in the field doing service and repair jobbing--I've never installed a boiler before and don't want to get in over my head in the installation dept as well as the financial one. Or am I just being chicken?
I have to add a new zone on to the existing boiler
anyway and was planning to change over to the
"pumping away" design while I'm at it.

cheers!

Sarah
>

gerry gill

i would bet that it was

a gravity system..there are at least two variations of the twin bushing that i am aware of..and it would have been the slooowwwness of the convection that would have made it work so well.

Steamhead

Another idea

instead of putting a ball valve in the basement, why not install a TRV in that same place, with a remote-mounted operator (dial control) unit up in the room?

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Weezbo

Wow! This is going BIG For some reason:)

how ta do the computer stuff befuddels me at times:(

sarah_4

TRVs in basement, controls in room

oh, yeah, duh... :)can I get some kind of extension kit to make the wire longer? one of the radiators is three stories above the basement.

sarah_4

double taps

Hey Gerry Gill,
the double taps are functioning. I don't understand your remark about the slowness of the convection--how does this relate to their being double tapped? Is there something I should be careful not to mess with here?

thanks!

Steamhead

Not sure

but someone at Honeywell or Danfoss would know.

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