re lawsuit

ernie_3

A while back I came out here telling about a lawsuit re a steam boiler the cust thought I "Improperly piped" You guys came up w' some great strategies. I wasn't able to gain access to the cust house for pics. I drew a full diagram of how I piped it and brought the mfg instructions
showing the same. He came off like a venomous spitting,bean counter. I told my side calmly and left out all opinion of the situation. In a weak moment I offered the cust 400.oo just to make it go away and get back to work. He declined my offer (1/3). The judge awarded him zilch w' no right of appeal. I take pictures of maybe 20% of my new installations. I recommend taking pics of EVERY installation. You never know the next wolf in sheeps clothing. Thanks for all your advice on my situation. Nice to know the judge listens and not all contractors are looking to screw people.

Wayco Wayne_2

Congrats Ernie

Good to hear that the scumbag didn't get his way. I've heard the nightmare stories where no one will listen to reason. Fortunately I have had very little bad biz experiences myself. I've had 2 general contractors go out of biz and not pay me. I've taken them to court and won. Didn't get any money but have leins on their houses so when they move they have to pay before they can sell. Unfortunately the lawyer gets half of the winnings, but I don't mind him getting the money. I like him and he has been my warrior in the courtroom. It's just sad that the cut and run people exist and have to be held to task. I have smelled a rat now and then as far as homeowners that will try and take advantage of a situation and just decline to bid, only to hear about it later in a supply house horror story from the poor contractor that did get the job. I've been in biz 18 years and have developed a nose for those types. I've learned I don't have to have every job, and that nice people are better to work for. WW

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gerry gill

awesome-

thanks for the update-..its great to know that there is an intelligent judge out there..congrats..i agree with the pictures..disposable cameras are good insurance..we use them also if we red tag a valve,,we take a picture of the tagout just out of paranoia..

ernie_3

hmmm

A nose for the scum sounds good. This fellow was a wwII vetaran and soft spoken. My heads up was he spent three wks trying to talk me down on the price. I didn't budge.If I go down on a quoted price, what was the first quote, the chump price? Wish I could've seen it coming. Five yrs in biz, 22 in the trade this was my first courtroom exp w' a cust and I told the judge that. Your right about not closing every deal. Thanks .

Ray_7

Way to go ERNIE !!!!!!

Congratulations on your victory!!!!!!

The good guys prevail again!!!

Starch

Weezbo

Pictures are the first ace out the sleeve.

after you piped it in,after you have tested everything you have no idea what the homeowner will do while you arent there. So "the boilers not functioning correctly, or a well what about putting a piece of finish trim in that corner?" no problem, done. however when your looking for a little "consideration" (being paid for totally remodeling the entire building) a few pictures that you forgot to routinely drop off at your lawyers is enough to jolt thier memory.

Firedragon_4

Congratulations Ernie,

if people listened to me and documented and photographed everything I would be out of work as an 'expert' and that would suit me just fine since I'd take a ton of lawyers with me.

jackchips_2

In your

experiences, wouldn't a Judge require the plaintiff to furnish pictures? How could the Judge decide without seeing the problem?

If "pictures are worth a thousand words" it seems they would be required by one side or the other?

A curious mind.

Dave Stroman

Did he just simply say it was not piped right to get out of paying? Did he say it did not work or what? I just got screwed on a job where there was so much air infiltration from uninsulated duct work in the attic that it threw my calulations way off. Instead of letting me work on fixing the situation, he just with held $1400 and barred my from his house. After finally collecting on his bounced checks I concidered myself lucky to excape with lossing only $1400.

Dave in Denver

Firedragon_4

Pictures are becoming more

common, you're correct, but previously a plantiff's shots might be considered altered. Today, with time stamped digitals they are becoming more admissable. Third party shots always are (were).

I'm getting more work directly from the court(s) as a 'discovery master'. I take pictures, write up my findings and submit them to the judge's clerk. I love it when thejob is as shown and installed and it matches the OEM I & O Manual, it then becomes an open-and-close case, great!

I'm not making as much this way, but I am winning more for the tradesmen or OEM's concerned. I've had to shoot down a few tradesmen, but if the job isn't installed to 'spec', then who's wrong???

Do it right, take pictures and keep a good job file and for pete's sake do a COMPLETE combustion test and record it!!!!

Mad Dog

Good for you..

what was his specific complaint/s? Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Hey! If he's a jerk now, he was probably one back then too

Move on. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

That's happened to me before too, Dave

Uninsulated houses that the HO INSISTS!!!! is insulated. Mad Dog

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ernie_3

Specifically he had bad water hammer in his system piping. He overfilled his system by 50 gallons about a month after the installation. (No banging b/4 this). A horizontal, (25'counterflow dry return sagged under the weight of this water. He refused to beleive me about this, but was forced to admit that he had no banging b/4 overfilling the boiler.
I offered to repipe/hang this run for 350. He wanted it for free. I declined and he payed someone 770.oo to do this job. He sued me for that and added 650 for agravation and 40 for filing fee. He was very unreasonable every step of the way. I maintained my professionalism (w' a lot of lip biting) and drew all my diagrams.

Constantin

Glad it came out OK

Congrats on standing your ground in a professional, courteous manner. Evidently, the other guy did just fine falling on his own sword.

I had a somewhat similar experience at the local board of zoning appeal meeting for our house construction project. Big weight off our backs, full steam ahead!

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is: Document your work and any issues you see. One boat surveyor I know uses his potential boat owners as props in his pictures... they point to whatever defect he is writing up, that way when they sue him for "negligence" on a feature he pointed out to them way back when, he simply sends a copy of the picture to the lawyer. Works every time, apparently.

So folks, there you have it: HO's are useful for something.. besides the paycheck, that is.

John Mills_3

Congratulations

on your legal victory!

We had one where a customer refused to pay for a $2000 furnace job and countersued for $3000, the max allowed in small claims. We recovered his refrigerant in order to remove and reinstall his A coil and upon trying to evacuate, found a leak in his condenser coil. He claimed the value of his 15 year old system was $800 so we offered $800 off a new system. Nope. He flat out told us his chimney couldn't be lined so despite the salesman calling for a chimney liner, we installed a draft hood kit to protect his chimney. He claimed by not lining, he was entitled to $500 off his job even though B-vent & the kit cost more than a liner.

End result, instead of getting a new cooling system for $800 off that I offered him, he got zilch from His Honor and had to pay interest & court costs! Another judge who took the time to listen to our side!