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toe kick heater

Don BartzDon Bartz Member Posts: 5
We live in an 112 year old 2 story victorian home. We have steam heat and are very satisfied with it.
Recently we have decided to remodel the kitchen. The steam radiator in the kitchen must go out. The kitchen is small it measures 10 feet x 16 feet with 9 foot cielings. We have tried many different floor plans and the only way we can make it work is by removing the radiator. We were thinking about installing a toe kick heater under the new cabinets. We wanted to know if one toe kick heater would do the job. The kitchen has an open door to a hallway that leads to the front (dinning) room. It also has an open walkway into another room which we call our office. We think that there should be enough heat to keep the space relitively warm. The one problem is we live in Wisconsin and the kitchen is on the Northeast corner of the house. So I guess if someone could give us a little idea if we are going in the right direction?


  • kevin coppingerkevin coppinger Member Posts: 2,124
    well if you planned ....

    on using steam for the toe kick, plan again. you can't. They only work off of hot water. You could use the condensate but that could get pretty pricey.Is there a place near the kitchen that you can move it to? You could put in either a Smaller slender steam rad. or do the electric kick unit as a last resort. kpc

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  • What about running

    the toekick off of whatever is making the hot water ? Are there any toekick heaters rated for higher street pressure ? And would there be a bacteria concern if it was a small loop to the kick heater ?
  • KenKen Member Posts: 1,640
    Many options

    Just to name a few:

    1) If you have an "unused" port for - or the actual tankless heater still in place - it's easy to develop a water based heating "solution." It could be a kick heater, radiant zone, or a HWBB system

    2) Steam could still be used by way of a "trough" heater with baffle and fin tube therein with a pretty decoritive brass plate escutcheon. These are typically in-floor mounted, by a slider door threshhold or outside wall most of the time. Typically 10-inches X 5-feet.

    3) A steam convector can be installed inside an exterior stud bay and be flush to the wall with an air inlet grill near the floor and a hot "air" discharge at chair rail height.

    4) A sunrad type radiator could be installed inside a framing "pocket" that would be close to finished wall "flush."

    5) The heat output of the fridge and extra insulation or better window/door/glass schedule may diminish the heat load to bearable with no heating at all. Especially if the adjacent rooms are warm and there is only one outside wall.

    Anything mentioned seem possible or practical?

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  • DaveCDaveC Member Posts: 201
    I'd opt for a heat source...

    that could be turned off entirely on the days you do cooking that has the oven on for extended periods, like Thanksgiving. Choice # 1 sounds best, if possible.
  • Don BartzDon Bartz Member Posts: 5
    toe kick heater

    I forgot to mention that the toe kick heater is electrical. What I need to know is if one (1) will be enough to heat this size kitchen?

  • ernieernie Member Posts: 191

    A heat transfer plate could be tied off the boiler and circulatd would provide the h/w you need for a kick heater. The kick htr side would have to be set up like a mini boiler though, Feeder/backflw preventer, relief valve, circ, purge set-ups .....
  • kevin coppingerkevin coppinger Member Posts: 2,124
    well how big.....

    was the old rad? size of each section and # of sections?

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  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 11,375
    Don, electric toe-kicks

    are expensive to operate. Compare the cost per BTU of electricity to gas or oil and you'll agree. You'll have it shut off most of the time to keep from running up the bill!

    I'd first look for a differently-shaped radiator that can handle the load and fit into the available space. This will be the simplest solution. After that, look at an in-floor trough or in-wall steam convector.

    Running hot water thru a hydronic toe-kick is more complicated and expensive than using steam, but it will be much cheaper to run than any electric toe-kick.

    To answer your question about what size of any of these units are needed, we need to know how much heat the room needs.

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  • Don BartzDon Bartz Member Posts: 5
    Toe kick heater

    The radiator that is currently in the kitchen has seven tubes (fins). Now, this radiator was in the kitchen before we opened the wall into our office. The kitchen now receives warm air form the rest of the house. So I'm thinking that any heater would be to supliment the heat that's already there.
  • KenKen Member Posts: 1,640
    And you probably insulated the heck

    out of any walls you had access to while doing the renovations?

    This bodes well for experimentation.

    Perhaps you can maintain comfort by simply doing nothing?

    Unless access to under cabinetry or wall space will be eliminated and "blocked out" by the next phase of construction/remodelling, you may want to just see what happens come fall? As long as there are no "do it now or you'll make more work doing it at a later date" dynamics likely - you may be better off doing nothing now and wait and see what it feels like come cold weather.

    Only you can decide if that is viable - and what the impact would be if it becomes a "meat locker" in the kitchen. As you already pointed out, the wall opening may provide adequate airflow to overcome the kitchen's shortfall.

    Between hot water for dishes (either manual or dishwasher variety) cooking burners and an oven - and the output from these frost free fridges - you may already have adequate heat to overcome the radiator removal.

    Just be prepared for the worst if you guess wrong. You know; Murphy's Law and all (:-o)

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  • mp1969mp1969 Member Posts: 226
    Steam toe space heater

    Consider putting in a small steam to air air handling unit,available from Trane MacQuay Modine or in some mechanical contractor's dead inventory. You would need space in the basement to locate this properly, but if you have a steam source and the physical room to install this unit you could easily duct it into your kitchen space.
    I am sure you could find a unit from some mecanical contractor's dead stock. If this would work contact me for ideas. ( [email protected]) I also live in Wisconsin and come from a mechanical contracting background.

    Good luck MP 1969
  • Wild BillWild Bill Member Posts: 112
    Turbonics Toe Kick

    I could swear I once heard Turbonics has a toe kick that can be used on steam. I don't know a phone for them but they are in Cleveland, Ohio .....ask for Craig, he is very helpful.
    Good luck
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