Put Residential Boilers On Concrete Pads?

GaryDidier

I install mine on 4 inch blocks unless something else is specified. It is a mater of personal choice.

Gary from Granville

Tom_22

How Beneficial Is It?

How beneficial would you consider it to furnish a concrete pad (say 4" to 6" high) under a residential boiler installed in an unfinished basement. Assume a location that stays dry normally.

2145EST JUNE 22 EDIT NOTE: Does it matter if it's steam versus hot water or a gas versus oil burner? I'm going to be replacing a oil burner steam boiler with a gas burner and seperate gas hot water heater.

Dave Stroman

The City of Denver has required them for quite some time. The only real benefit I can see is it keeps the boiler up away from moisture and dirt and lint. Might also keep heat away from a combustable floor.

Dave in Denver

Unknown

Full size pad

is required under most boilers using atmospheric burners. If you put the boilers just on blocks and not fully under the boiler you change the secondary air to the burners. This can cool the flame and cause carbon monoxide at the worst and certainly inefficiency at the least. The pad should stick out a couple of inches all around. Check manufacturers requirements to make sure how their boiler should be installed.

A pad is a good idea if there is a tendency for flooding. A flooded boiler, water heater or furnace should be replaced if it is ever subjected to being immersed. This is the recommendation of the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association (GAMA). It is also required by many local jurisdictions when flooding has occured.

gerry gill

i guess denver

doesn't have many steam boilers?

J.C.A._3

For wet base,

Boilers it's a must. Having ruined a few knuckles trying to get at a low boiler drain on the floor, I wouldn't have it any other way. Chris

kevin coppinger_4

well this is....

one of those things...I really like to get the boiler up of the floor as much as practically possible. Most of what I install is oil. The 3 reasons I do this are ease of oil burner access/service (don't need to bend over so much)and it keep most all the dust out of the fan. I was told that by doing this you can reduce service calls immencely. water and moisture the other reason.(basements here in New England tend to be damp)In my opinion this is a MUST for dry base oil boilers as it will rot out the base from the outside in.( i don't use many of those anyway). kpc

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Weezbo

Dry base wet base?

Dry base could be a bad idea, say the liner goes bad then the heat is right on the ecement drying it out to the point of disintergration. wet base it is same deal although should oil leak out it isnt as likely as a dry base to use the concrete as a source of fuel in an uncontrolable fire. metal stands are plenty good:) pre fired cinder blocks and pavers will bring it up to real also. poured base with a piece of tin with a oil leak pan in the front that is pitched to one side will catch oil drips while servicing. It is far easier to work on a boiler that is "off the ground" it also looks cleaner,leaks may be more easily detected,and should you elect to "Go WYDE" on the base a bit you have a place to put some of your hand tools etc. one last thing...having it up off the ground sorta assures that it will be cleaned and serviced from time to time...joes wife thinks what is this dust bunny doing in the corner! You Lazy Demon Joe go get the maint guy to clean the boiler!

hr

All the above

flooding, protection from dirt and dust generated while sweeping, and it does make it easier to set up and service. Especially some of the condensing WHs with all the gas valve and controls bottom mounted.

I stack two solid 4" concrete blocks, at least. The solid type.

Some boiler installation manuals show using hollow concrete blocks to elevate a boiler above a combustiable floor with the webs lined up for air circulation.

hot rod
hot rod

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Weezbo

Havent visited England buh placing an English boiler upon the top of stonehenge would seem a bit of a feat:)can you picture in your mind a 650lb iron boiler ....:)))he he :)we keep putting the boilers higher and higher off the ground in the garage:)) building a Mini Stonehenge.....would truely "elevate"our work to new standards:)

lisa

pads

what about leveling ?? that can be the biggest pain in the #*^. Considering that most boilers have a floor drain close by with a sloping basement floor to go along with it. A level pad is a nice way to start, beats the heck out of shimming. Do you ever wonder why the manufacturers don't put adjustable leveling legs on their boilers?

Josh M.

Well out here in seattle we call it a house keeping pad because you can hose down around the boiler and the water doesn't settle under it.

Gordy

What about flammable vapors? Since most flammable vapors are heavier than air getting the boiler (burners) up off the floor farther would extend the time to reach the ignition source,and hopefully someone will discover the issue before it gets to that point.Always have to think about the careless homeowner.I know it is code in my area that entry ways to the dwelling from an attatched garage have to be at least 6" above garage floor grade, because of the flammable vapors issue.Maybe this dose not apply but was a thought I had.

Mark Eatherton1

You're using the wrong boiler company...

Mine supply leveling legs for their boilers AND their tanks.

With most boilers, in a well installed system, The floor drain is not really an issue. The slope of the floor is!

It's tough, but I've cut forms to conform to the slope of the floor to get a level slab(s).

I personally don't see any advantage to them (house keeping pads). I've got system sin rooms without them (most) and they don't operate any differently then those that do. It's a design choice. If you choose to do it, make sure you differentiate yourself from the competition by telling the consumer that you're doing it (house keepng pads), and the competition probably isn't.

It adds value to the job, I'm just not sure how much...

ME

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Mark Eatherton1

Code issues...

I had a friend that was a fire chief. He told me that raising the pilot actually caused more problems than it avoided. Instead of igniting say maybe 6" of pooled accelerant (propane for example) you accumulated 18" of accelerant, which makes for a MUCH bigger BANG...

This is the whole reason behind the vapor igniition resistant systems we're seeing on tank type DHW heaters. I'd heard some senators daughter got killed in an explosion because of a water heater in a garage, and he set about, completely changing the way water heater companies do business. Not sure of the validity of the story, but it came from a reputable source (WH manufacturer).

I personally think that the whole issue could be covered with off shelf technology (Flammable vapor sensors) and the net cost to the consumer less than the curent requirements.

But that's JMHO :-)

BTW, Do you know how high propane usually pools? To the height of the lowest pilot :-)

ME

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Gordy

I thought about that after my post ME,the big bang theory that is.Like I said I did not know if that applies to the house keeping pad. With the garage code I was speaking of the gases would go out the garage door before getting 6" deep assuming poor door seal.Bottom line, should never come to that scenareo BUT.
I remember ice fishing at night a long time ago,after a couple of hours out we heard a giant Wump (new word). We seen this huge glow up on the hill side in the distance. Turned out to be a house under construction, the drywallers keeping the house toasty so there tapeing would not freeze had a couple of propane salamanders going one of the lines had a leak well as soon as the propane got up to the flame it leveled the house damn near. No one hurt, lesson learned.

ScottMP

Mark

I think this vapor resitance systems will be big blow the the HW heater companys. The price has made indirects look like a much better option and just wait untill the customer finds he needs a new WH and its not under warranty.

This looks to be a big mistake for a few problems.

Scott

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Mark Hunt

Big Bang \"theory\"


I have read that the number of water heaters that go boom due to flammable vapors averages about 17 per year.

Not a huge number, but if it was one of our family members that got hurt or killed, I am sure we would be very upset.

These new "FVRI" water heaters may also indicate poor venting issues. If the flue gases stack up inside the tank, the protection mechanism MAY trip. I say it might trip, not guaranteed.

I have been wondering why the federal government would mandate the entire water heater industry change it's design. Each time I asked for the numbers that would cause the government to act, no-one could answer.

So for 17 explosions per year, the industry is forced to change it's design and the American consumer will pay more for a water heater.

What will happen when the feds take notice of the thousands of people killed by accidental CO poisoning?

Mark H

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jackchips_2

Good question

Mark.

Here's another one. Does anyone take notice that there are over 44,000 THOUSAND killed on our highways every year? Last years SARS epidemic killed less than 100 world wide and there was PANIC everywhere.

It's always interesting how a thread can go from "Put residentials boilers...." to ".............".

By the way, I always put boilers on some type of platform.

Constantin

Besides the CPSC, don't forget the courts

Water heaters hurt people in a number of ways. Going BOOM is just one of them. As a result, the water heater industry is overflowing with suits.

The company I used to work for developed the test for the WH industry to see just how resistant their designs were. There were plenty of booms in the early days. As the test design engineer pointed out, it's about creating a conflagration (sub-sonic flame speed) versus explosion (super-sonic flame-speed).

My recollection of the whole trend towards flammable-resistant WH designs was a bit different than the one mentioned before. IIRC, American waterheater was the first to market with such a design and could very well have patented it and locked the others out. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't. Perhaps once the concept was proven, an industry-wide test created, etc. that the CPSC decided to make the whole thing mandatory.

For me, a gas fired water heater should, at the very least, be the direct-vent variety. However, I would seal every darned seam in the vent system of a direct-vent with the high-temp (i.e. red) silicone because I don't have much faith in the sheet metal they ship, the abuses of transportation, etc.

Anyway, a flammable-resistant WH design is a solution chasing a problem. Yes, some people get killed by dropping a pail of gasoline next to their heater. On the other hand, IMHO creating flammable-resistant water heaters isn't going to do much until all combustion appliances are either of the sealed variety or flammable-vapor-resistant themselves.

A pilot light is a pilot light... whether it's part of a furnace, water heater, or stove. Next, how about explosion-proof alternators, starters in vehicles and spark-proof switches for basements and garages... etc. you get the idea. Before you know it, the whole place will be filled with the kind of hardware usually found in coal mines and grain elevators.

steve_6

boilers with levelers

We're using Burnham, Dunkirk, and Peerless. ME whose boilers do you use that have levelers?? thanks Steve

hr

Bigger bang theory

Used to be code required a combustion air vent within 12" of the floor and within 12" of the ceiling. As such flammable vapors would exsit the lower opening before getting to the 18" level. Also high and low allowed some circulation as the warm air would rise and flow out while cooler air came in the bottom.

However the new NFPA code "option" allows for only one combustion out, or inlet, near the ceiling. A big reason was the freezing of pipes in mechanical spaces with that lower air grill, in cold climates. Most owners would stuff them full of insulation to stop the cold air entry!

So I can see the potential for a big bang under that scenario ( high only combustion air vent). Especially with LP (heavier than air) fumes lying in wait. Natural gas fumes tend to rise up to the high combustion air vent.

hot rod

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