tempermental toilet

Al_11

I know this is not heating, but I am a heating guy not a plumber and I know we got plumbers out there.
I have got a cabin which has a toilet that works great 90% of the time. It only acts up when we have guests over.I think it is venting issue but I still don't understand why.
Most of the time the water level in the bowl will be at it's normal level but sometimes I will find it almost at the bottom of the drain neck (?). Sometimes I will find it at that level 2 or 3 times in one day and then not again for weeks.
Sometimes the toilet will back up when used and sometimes it will back up with nothing but water in it, I mean it refuses to flush even water. The only way to get it to work is to plunge it vigorously.
It seems like these 2 problems are independent of each other. They do not have to happen at the same time.
The cabin is on a septic system with a lift station and the toilet sits on a 3" PVC drain.
I am going to open the wall up to check the venting but in the same room the sink and whirlpool work with out any undue noise or slowness.
Can someone explain this logically.
AS usual thanks for any and all help
Al

Mike Kraft_2

First check

The rim flush.These are the small ports under the rim of the water closet.You can use a wire hanger.......dont worry I wont tell mommy dearest:)After that look at the small hole @ the bottom of the water closet.Not the one that the waste goes down but the one about the size of a nickel.Take the hanger and shove it up there.Try to pick away at any minerals that have collected.It's kind of like when the dentist picks at the plaque on your teeth:).Make sure all these orifies are clean(a clean orifie is a happy one ).Hope that works.

cheese.I'll send a bill:)

GaryDidier

toilet

Al,
Save yourself some trouble and install a new toilet and a whole house water filter.

Gary from Granville

ScottMP

check the lift station

Al, you might have to much float on the lift station or a bad switch. If it dosn't have enough capacity in the tank it might be filling up the tank and creating back preasure in the line and backing up the toilet. The lav and tub have such low flow that it might not create a problem.

I would get a new Toto WC and replace the existing unit. It will flush better and tax the system less.

Since its not flushing completly its probable leaving something in the bolw and thats creating the capillary atraction thats emptying the bowl.

New Toilet and check the lift station, thats my two cents.

Scott

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Al_11

I appreciate your answereing, am I correct in thinking no one thinks its a venting issue.
Al

ScottMP

It might be Al

But has it allways been a problem ?

Most venting is over sized.

I would check the pump first, good luck.

Hey its a camp, you could always let it flow

Scott

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Victor H Plank

Toilet

Mike is correct if this a syphon jet toilet...after doing what he suggests. Dump about 1/2 gallon of calci-solve or whatever you use to clean hot water coils very slowly into the tank and use your coil cleaning pump to circulate the acid laden water down the overflow tube of the toilet to the bowl and back and forth. Warning coat all chrome in the bathroom with vaseline the fumes from the coil cleaner can pit the brass.

And you dont need a filter you need a softener. If the toilet is more than 12 years old cheaper just to get a new one; buts its going be one of them damn low water usage mandated by the gov. Be sure to spend the bucks to get pressure type...really loud but the biggest floater or is it a bobber goes away with just one flush

Before you do the above....started typing before thinking...when the toilet doesnt flush..does the water just slowly rise and just before reaching the rim go away with little or no swirl? Sometimes so sometimes not? If so above is correct.

On a good flush can you flush away a burnt paper match? Remove match from book ...close cover before striking..blow out match and toss in bowl and flush. If match goes away with good flush...then above is correct...If not.. more than likely ...you have something stuck in the horn of the trap.

Hope this helps
Vic Plank
Lancaster PA

EJW

Vent Prob?

Is there a wash machine there? What does the water in the toilet do as the machine empties? As far as the toilet being the problem the siphon jet and rim jets are a good place to start. A good choice for a new one would be a Eljer Patriot. You also might be able to trace out the drainage below to avoid cutting open the wall looking for a vent. EJW

Randy Tibbits

I'd check for a belly in the main drain. Also make sure the ejector pit is vented properly. I've seen air addmitance valves on pits and it won't work. Air has to go into the tank and go out of the the pit. You can check the rim holes by pouring five gallons of water into the bowl. If it drains properly after several tries it's probably the rim jets. i'd change the toilet. Good luck

curiousity kills

toilet

Is there another toilet in the home? Do you notice the water lowers if somthing else was used? When another fixture is being used it will pull air from the path of least resistence and if that fixture is not properly vented that toilet could be the least resistant path

Weezbo

al,get a 5 gal bucket...

go up on the roof and dump it down the vent:) if its something caught in a sant ()Oops/combo vent that thing will be clean as a hoosel once you finish that run:) now ,the advise of pouring a five gallon bucket straight down the toilet bowl then another straight down the tank and sending some poly zag or tame or clobber through the thing dang near assures you it aint got sh to do with the toilet or vent:) ...my best guess is this,you have a slow drain ,slightly less than 1/4" to the foot:) on its merry way to the grinder (sump pump) .the only trick i know that could work is take the toilet out,undue the screws holding the flange to the floor,shim it up,replace the screws with some chubbier ones and re seat the toilet and new wax ring,with a jhonnie bolts set:)

bob_33

interior truck setup ideas, unusual tools

any thought pros and con on box truck organization? rollup vs. hinged doors? exterior side compartments vs everything inside? any unusual tools you carry to help shorten the day?

Dingo

My 2 cents...

I'm thinking you have something stuck in the toilet. To me the sign is that the water level gets very low ... sometimes. I'm thinking there's something caught in the trapway .. when paper gets caught on it the wet paper trail acts as a siphon path and draws the standing water out of the bowl. Now sometimes the object gets rinsed clean = no paper - water level holds.

Some things only catch paper and "stuff" part of the time ... because they move back and forth across the waterway deep in the bowels of the toity ... like an eyebrow pencil ... or a small plastic toy ... What you may want to try is rip some newspaper into strips about 12" long and 1" wide ... drop about a dozen of these across the top of the water in the bowl and then flush. The newspaper is stronger then the usual TP, and rather than break over the object or rinse off it will catch and cause a backup (so be ready with the tank lid off to reset the flapper and stop the flow). Try that a few times ... if you see the backup then mystery solved.

FWIW

Dingo

Rich daplumber

plugged drain

has anybody thought abought a partialy plugged drain? when large usage this symptom happens.