Questions on near boiler piping with new boiler installed

Bruce Warren

I am having a new boiler installed with one riser. There are two mains connected to the header. 1 main is counterflow for the first half of its length. It is this end that connects to the header. The other main is pitched away from the boiler. In the old furnace header setup the counterflow main was second to get steam. In the new header setup the counterflow main is first to get steam. Is this necessarily a bad thing? The pitch on the header from the riser end to the equalizer end is slight or negligible. Can this lead to problems? What will happen if condensate from the counterflow main goes back into the riser? Also will this condensate interfere or rob latent heat from the steam going to the second main.

Secondly, the piping pitch from the header to the ell that leads up to the second main is pitched toward the ell. Water will inevitably gather in this pipe. How bad can this cause problems?

Pictures are included.
Thanks for the help, Bruce.

gerry gill

your pictures didn't come thru..but

it sounds like the takeoffs should be reversed..sounds like you have a pretty good knowledge of why, just need some reassurance..i think you know what needs to be done..i would also use a second riser to the header if the tapping is available also..

zeb_3

?

This appears to be a steam boiler. Why is there an expansion tank & air eliminator?

Unknown

Most manufacturers would want

the 2 steam mains teed directly into the boiler header , something like the job I posted . With the counterflow main , you would want the pipe out of the boiler header to drop down into that main with a tee - one end going up to the rads and the other dropping down to the returns . Someone posted a diagram here that shows exactly how it's done - my poor writing skills don't do it justice . How far does the counterflow pipe run before it pitches down to it's return ? If it's not far and there isn't many rads on the couterflow side , I wouldn't think it a big deal .

I pipe the boiler header pretty much level like yours and they work fine , knock on wood .

Mark Eatherton1

Yeah...and

whats with that big red goofy looking thing. Is that some kind of steam reservoir so it can build up extra pressure and shoot steam out into the system and cause everything to hammer or what... I'll bet that baby keeps the mechanical room warm;-)

ME

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Bruce Warren

expansion tank

I also have one foyer with baseboard heat. The prior rig was to pump boiler water through that loop. Not the greatest setup. This boiler has a tankless coil option so I had them add a closed system hot water loop setup.

kevin coppinger_4

my guess it's ....

a steam seperator to get the steam to dry out...thera-flow everhot had a copper version that did something similar....kpc

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Robert O'Connor_7

OK...Ya got me..

What is that thing?? Is this were that woodchucks been hiding all along??..Robert O'Connor/NJ

Christian Egli

clean steam?


I find the use of the steam separator very interesting. Do you have any idea whether it is really effective? Do you know if it solves the problems of the header? Why was it installed?

I ask a lot of questions but why put a separator and then, mix the clean steam with the returning condensate trickling from the first main? I think you could solve this problem easily by putting a diversion on the first main somewhere after it leaves the header. That diversion (a tee pointed down) would take away the counter-flow condensate from the bottom of it and return it to the boiler below the water level.

Do you think your header has a big enough diameter?

Changing a header is a lot of work, this one could be improved but I don't think there is anything dangerous about it the way it is.

Better yet: go tell the homeowner that steam is old and not inefficient enough and that everything should be changed to forced air, then come back and kick me. I haven't been around for as long as steam.

Thanks for keeping steam alive.

Christian

Mark Eatherton1

Ahhh...

Faux steam drum eh... Is it any relation to a false water line??? :-)

If people would just follow the manufacturers suggestions as it pertains to near boiler piping, we wouldn't have problems like these.

BTW, I blew up the picture. THe MBR, air vent and expansion tank appear to be on the manually controlled make up to the system...

Thats a pretty expensive air elimination package for make up...

ME

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DaveGateway

Near Boiler

The piping looks correct from the pic even if the first tap is the counterflow. Nice pitch to the return from that main. If he couldn't spin the boiler 180* there was no choice. Job conditions...you know.
I've never seen that separator/accumulator/or whatever device. Looks like 3"x2". If so I can't but help think it helps. Needs insulation. You're guy did a good job though we haven't seen the return piping.

What in the world is the pipe dropping into the steam header with the gas cock installed? I hope it's not returning condensate.

Bruce Warren

Unstable water line

The new boiler has an unstable water line and uneven heating between the two mains. The old boiler was perfectly balanced. One thing of note is that a steam separator was installed. The separator has a 3 to 2" reduction. The headers installed are 2". The boiler specs call for a minimum 2.5" header. The old boiler called for a 2" header. Would this be the leading candidate for the unstable water line? I spent hours skimming the boiler to remove any bad stuff. While the waterline stabililty improved marginally (it not longer completely leaves the site glass) it bounces plenty and while both mains get steam the first main from the riser is cranking at the radiators while the radiators off the second main in line from the riser are mostly cold.

I want to tell the contractor to spec the riser and header pipes before playing with vents, etc.

Help!