Sediment Trap required???

Unknown

a sediment trap on gas equipment installations? Is it required in your area?

What do you think about still using them in this day and age, are they really necessary?

If anyone has bothered to check one recently did you find anything in it?

bob young

drip leg

in n.y.c. the utilities require them. usually some cutting oil in them. lol

Steamhead

They're required in the Baltimore area too

Occasionally we find a unit that doesn't have one, so we add it.

I have yet to see one that actually had water or dirt in it, but why take the chance?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

drip legs are worth the 50 cents in pipe and cap.

we have the sweetest nat gas any where and hey i put them in. i am not thinking of getting into rewriting the code any time soon and see it as a wonderful thing:) on boilers that are caravaned i belive in oversizing the return it is an easy way to clean the system out. sure strainers are good, the drip leg idea i also use on unit heaters spread all over the building lashed to large loops etc. i think the idea has validity in venting boilers also, instead of turn 90 bang it into a T and put a plug int lower side.now should the boiler be condensing in the stack it ruins a 2$ plug instead of the boiler:)

rich pickering

Canadian code B149.1 - 5.13.1 A dirt pocket shall be installed at the bottom of any piping or tubing, on the final drop serving an appliance other than
(a) an illuminating appliance
(b) a range
(c) a clothes dryer
(d) an outdoor grill
(e) a portable appliance or equipment
(f) a decorative appliance
(g) a gas log
(h) a room heater
(i) appliances incorporating a sediment trap

Not sure what the logic is for these exemptions.

Murph'_5

required

lots are missing due to folks "DYI" (do yourself in) decide they can/will hook-up a BBQ or some gas logs. Not allowed we must change or call in for red-tagg!!



Murph'

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Recent problem with a gas valve

which when taken apart was found to have some foreign material inside which caused both of the seats in the valve to stick open. It looked like a combination of cutting oil and some kind of grease. There was no sediment trap on this installation.

Interesting the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association (GAMA) had a recent news release addressing this very issue. They state that a sediment trap should be installed as a precaution even if code does not require it. The National Fuel Gas Code NFPA still does require one installed in accordance with section 8.5.7 of that code.

If anyone is interested in that news release I will e-mail it to you as it is pretty lengthy. If you have any questions on this or have experienced problems with foreign substances in gas controls you can contact Frank A. Stanonik 703-525-7060 ext 221 or e-mail him fstanonik@gamanet.org. GAMA's web site is www.gamanet.org.

Matt Undy

How many dryer or range feeds have you seen with a drip leg? The fryer usually is the lowest point in the system but it almost always adapts right into the dryer. BTW, what are the codes on flared copper for a feed? Is this legal? Most that I have seen are installed this way.

Aren't drip legs specified in the installation manual of virtually every furnace or boiler?

How many drip legs have you seen where the cap was removed and adapted to copper or aluminum to feed a grill or dryer presumably by a department store's installer? What about doing the same with an air chamber to install a dishwasher, ice maker, or washing machine? What did they think that capped piece of pipe was there for? And when solenoid valves are used are where the air chambers are needed most.

Perhaps some much relaxed and srongly enforced certification is needed for appliance delivery/instsallation is needed. I can tell you about Builder's Square installed water heaters that clearly weren't permitted and inspected or Sears delivery and installation of washers with hoses that are stretched so tight they will rupture at some point. Am I ranting too much, no one has complained too loudly at least about anything tehcnical...

Matt

hr

I install mainly LP

in my area, and yes I do find "stuff" in the bottom of drip legs when I check them.

I wish more inspectors were up to speed on the drip leg requirement. Most installers go drip leg less around here!

Seems they really get overlooked with the installation of CSST piping. Many installers CSST into the appliance, even though the code disallows union connections inside the jacket. I wonder that these speed freak installers even own threading equipment ofr carry nipple caddies :)More dumbing down of the industry in exchange for quick and easy.

Install, or add drip legs to all jobs, would be my advise. And keep the teflon tape away from gas piping! Not uncommon to find strands of that in a gas valve screen.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Matt Undy

hacked drips

I've seen several missing drips where I know the line was installed by the company that sold the appliance, its by far not all DIY.

Matt

Dale

Wisconsin

Wisconsin has adopted the uniform dwelling code which brings in the national fuel gas code that requires drip legs ( 8.5.7 now called "sediment traps" ) on most applainces and by reference following the manufacturers install instructions which usually show a drip leg. We do not use the old inlet drips or slope pipe to the meter anymore. We do like drips since its a perfect pressure check point and we do sometimes find shavings or oil in the leg.

Unknown

Matt Undy to answer

your question about flared copper. That is allowed on LP gas in fact it is a requirement. There are some recent changes to copper for nat gas which allow a pro press type of fitting. In the past copper for natural gas required brazing with 1,000 degree solder and it must be properly supported. There may be other local codes that require more or less.

And yes most installation manuals I have seen require a sediment trap, but then who reads directions???

Murph'_5

I had been told

By a former inspector (retired) that I could put the dirt leg (one) anywhere on the gas piping system even at the penetration of the building !! Common sense told me to forget what he said and keep putting them on each appliance. And of course I had come across so called pro companies hawking firepits that removed them for eazy installs.



Murph'

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Matt Undy

I've been told by inspectors things that were contrary to the code. In general i've seen them obsess on a few issues (such as using his little gfci tester on every single recepticle but not paying attention to my pains to follow rules about raceway and box fill, bonding, and labeling. He didn't evne pull the cover on the pannelboad before sigining off on the new service and pannelboard. Inspector for the power vent water heater didn't even go outside and look at the vent termination.). Some inspectors were thourough and seemed to know the code well but it is widely variable. I know in one of the suburbs of Detroit the inspectors will always red tag something for the re-inspection fee. But this is a whole can of worms on the ethics of varous building departments. oops, i think i got completely off subject.

Back to my point...removing the drip leg and piping the sediment into a BBQ shows either comlete ignorance of the code or blatent disregard for it, its only slightly harder to add another t and nipple and put the drip back.

The idea of using CSST inside an appliance cabinet is just scary from a physical protection standpoint. I suspect the idea of physical protection is rather new to plumbers, copper, steel, and even large PVC are much more resistant than wiring materials.

Matt

Murph'_5

Even so...

We still need one valve per appliance, always before the drip and "Any" unions. So as to avoid any pain they remove cap and valve there, problem is the first valve now fires two appliances. One thought is then the blow-by goes on to the "newly" installed appliance, not good from a saftey point, but describes the DYI crowd.


Matt, I went round with a young fireplace "dude" when I had to repipe his work, customer had me come in to explain what I was doing (days later)he had admitted to a short-cut and that he "knew" it was incorrect, but of course the focus was on price and he got the bid. When told his appliance was spitting CO into the home, he wanted to know how much was acceptable!! I tolt him we have zero tolerance for CO. I offered some resources and told him to contact me, he never did!! whaddajagonnado.


Murph'

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

lchmb

gas log's

By code they are not required on gas log's, dryer's or ornamental appliances. With the exception of dryer's I install them on everything else barring not being able to. I then install one at some point in the system. I have found very little in any that I have ever taken apart but it only take's a minute amount to create an OH xxxx situation so I will continue to install them myself...:)

gerry gill

here in ohio,

they want to see them used...when i worked in san diego we didn't have to use them...'course we can only use black here in ohio and in san diego we used galvy only..go figure.

DaveGateway

Still required...

even when flexible coated stainless has been accepted for supply. Gas used to be "dirtier" and thus required a dirt leg. Cleaner gas and inlet screens probably make them relatively non essential but I've never installed a required appliance without them. How about some installed on the "bull" of a tee in a horizontal run? How much dirt is that gonna trap?

bob young

DRIPS

a lot of times we simply install a plug. usually mainly to bleed line without breaking union connection.gas company wants nipple and cap. what do they care ,they aint paying for it. every penny counts. WHEN I STARTED IN TRADE STANDARD PROCEDURE WAS A DRIP AT EVERY CHANGE OF ELEVATION. lol

Unknown

Correct sediment trap

is with a nipple and a cap.

Steamhead

That's Right

How much sediment or water can a tee with a plug hold? Not much. Why take the chance?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

bob_25

drip

if i'm not mistaken the national fuel gas code "forbids " a dirt leg or drip at any location where it can freeze. bob

Steamhead

I think you're right

but very few residential units are so installed. Now when we get into rooftop units and similar applications, we can always put the trap inside the building where it won't freeze.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Robert O'Connor_7

Sediment trap..

They are required in NJ, as per 2000 IFG code, and yes I do think their necessary and yes I have and do find stuff in them....Robert O'Connor/NJ

Unknown

Bob we often had

drip legs outside at the bottom of the vertical pipe going to the roof. We used it to put methanol in to prevent freezing at the elbow as it turned at roof level. It was often about an 18" drip leg so we could fill it and it would keep us from having freeze ups during extreme cold weather.