Replacing circulators on service jobs. Use the same one?

DanHolohan

of a certain brand, do you replace it with the same brand?

I'm curious about this because the reason why circulator manufacturers like to get their units on packaged boilers is because they figure you'll replace like with like down the road when the first unit fails.

I can see how this was true in years past, but I'm not so sure it still holds water (pun intended) nowadays. What do you think?

Big Ed

Circulator

With me it's what my boss stocks on my truck , which is a 007 Taco. Sometimes I would pick up other brands for the direction and distance of the circ's flange, when space is a concern and the system flange set and or piping looks like a problem...

Boilerpro_3

NOt re3ally

> of a certain brand, do you replace it with the

> same brand?

>

> I'm curious about this because

> the reason why circulator manufacturers like to

> get their units on packaged boilers is because

> they figure you'll replace like with like down

> the road when the first unit fails.

>

> I can see

> how this was true in years past, but I'm not so

> sure it still holds water (pun intended)

> nowadays. What do you think?

Boilerpro_3

Not really

I also check to see if the pump is the correct one for the installation. Often, the existing pump is way too big or the system would be better served with a different pump. IE: residential single zone baseboard system with a B&G series 100 would get a higher head, low flow pump like the NRF or UP42. It is not uncommon on small commerical jobs to pull out a 1/3 to 1/2 hp 2 or 3 inch pump and replace it with a little 1/6 or 1/12 hp B&G PL.

Boilerpro

John@Reliable_9

I always replace with ..................

B&G NRF-22 in most cases why? because the 007 can be found in most HD stores. I check in the big box stores monthly to see what they are stocking, just so I know what not to buy anymore if possible. Should have seen the look on my face last month when at Lowes I saw the boiler line I was GOING to start using for steam replacements. Nice soild design stainless steel jacket. I still found it hard to beleive the numbers can be that good to jusifly companys selling some items like they do.

Dave_12

Distributor's Input



We are a boiler distributor (H.B. Smith, Lochinvar, etc.) as well as a Grundfos Pump Distributor. We look at each pump replacement case for needed flow, head, and fit. We try to go back with a Grundfos as this is is what we stock, but if the application is not right for our Grundfos line, we go back with what was there. Very, very often the pump in place is not the right pump. We are continually amazed at the poor knowledge of installers on steam & hot water systems.

Weezbo

mr reliable..

i saw some of those boilers myself...my buddy has three of them for such a deal other than lowes is going to carry them what do you see on the good side? i do a bit of nat gas and they shure duh look sharp.

Weezbo

recircs need to be bought into this century...

pumping may be an idea that manufacturers need to get into a bit more...i think there is a need for a "Pinner Pump" a down sized version of a oo3 1/2"or 3/4" i tend to look at what the boiler is rolling with, consider the person,the amount of recircs and type... if it is clear there is an advantage to be gained for the owner over the long haul i might recommend piping changes and less pumps and using what they need instead of what they "GOT" if you reduce the piping arrangement say out of 200' of 2" and an indeterminable amount of 90's quite likely twenty "PUMPS"can go and one recirculator replace them.off to work its my light day where its just me and God and peace and quiet:)

Paul Pollets

I like and am particular to

Grundfos pumps...But use B&G on commercial replacements, as required.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

DanHolohan

Paul,

if the job had a Taco, would you use their flanges with the Grundfos, or would you use the Grundfos flanges? Does the color matter? This would be on service work. Thanks.

Robert O'Connor_6

John at Reliable

what brand did you see at Lowes?
I emailed ya but it bounced

Regards

Robert

Robert O'Connor_6

That depends!!

for residential use etc I like to replac with Grundfoss, They don't sell them at the Depot. If its a really sexy looking job with all Taco's I will put a Taco back in, Flanges don't matter here they all seem to fit. Though sometimes the you find a Grundfoss or old ITT cartridge that needs a turned flange so that will be a Grundfoss to.

On commercial jobs thats on a cases by case basis. I really like to take out 1600 series Taco and repipe with the Versaflow if time and money allow.

Regards

Robert

ME

Paul Pollets

Reply

I'd use their flanges with the Grundfos. I'm finding color doesn't matter...As long as the pump is sized correctly. Buderus ships a Grunfos Brute w integral C/V with their boilers. Wirsbo uses Taco with their ProPanels. Does the brand really matter any more?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

hr

My favorite

is the Grundfos. The new Super Brutes allow you to adjust speed and curves, have removable check valves, (for ghost flow fixes) and a 3 year warranty. One pump will replace 3 other models, which is nice! lots of times they can be run on speed one for many boiler pump primary applications.


They offer rotated flange versions also to replace other brands.


Flange compatability doesn't become an issue until the high head versions where the bolt pattern widens. Then it probably is best to stay OEM.

Really the circ needs to convert electrical energy into a rotating impeller. If a brand new out of the box pump cannot provide that simple function, I have little use for it. I have had numerous package boilers arrive with seized pumps. An installer shouldn't have to disassemble and free a stuck cartridge on a brand new pump, in my opinion. Or have to tap them to start up in the fall

I've yet to have a brand new Grundfos fail to spin when asked

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

DanHolohan

So if

the original boiler had a Taco, you'd replace it with a Grundfos? Would you use the green flanges, HR, or would you change to the Grundfos flanges?

I saw that pump at NAOHSM. Nice stuff. They had a display where the pump was running inside a plastic canister. You could change the speeds and watch the water flow higher and higher. Very visual, and, I thought, pretty smart.

Glenn Harrison_2

I've always been a B&G fan,

especially since they are made right in my back yard (Morton Grove, Illinos). Support the local economy, and they have always made a good product. I carry an NRF-22 on my truck, but have also started carrying a Grundfus 15-58 on my truck due to the three speeds, and the built in check. (Hint Hint B&G make a multi speed pump again). Also the 15-58 is nice for those jobs where the flanges are perpendicular to the pump and there is no room for a parralell flange pump. The new check valve isolation flanges from B&G are quite intriguing, and I'm waiting to use them.

Yes Dan, I would and I have changed one brand out for another, Many Taco's replaced with B&G's, and have never heard a complaint.

Glenn Harrison_2

Had a similar pump replacement this winter

Had a 1200 sg ft single story house, with a 180,000 btu boiler (needs about 100,000) and an old B&G 2" pump from the 50's on an 1¼" main line. The old pump shaft was leaking, and the customer wanted a new pump. So I figured the approximate BTU's of the house, came up with the Grundfos 15-58 being the best bet due to this being a Monoflo Tee system. The temp drop thru the system came out to 19°. Not bad for an educated guess.

DaveGateway

Dan, are you suggesting...

that some of us replace pumps based on flange color? Grundfoss flanges are black so they might be lagging behind on the R&R sales. Maybe we should carry Taco green or B&G red touch up paint. It's quicker and easier than swapping flanges. Hold on, let me pull my tongue out of my cheek.

If it's a simple R&R and no time or money for analysis the safe bet is to replace with original or equiv. by curve. Flange color difference might be an issue to the customer but could be explained away in a minute.

As with Glenn, I was B&G all the way for the same reasons as him. Trouble is, most of my suppliers don't stock the full range of NRF's. Taco is better stocked through the curve options for cartridge circulators but,...the Grundfoss 3 speed serves an awful lot of applications... I'm stocked. Magenta and green isn't as christmasy as red and green but what the hey...Merry Christmas.

hr

Did I mention

the T word

Yes I switch the pump.

I prefer iso flanges, but could or would use the iron ones shipped.

My local Burnham rep specs B&G on the boilers they bring in, as they are also the B&G reps, by the way.

That small spindicator that Grundfos and Able Distributors in Chicago, have works on Grundfos and B&G but not Taco. A clever, handy troubleshooting tool.

Actually I installed a cast boiler Thursday and it came with some really beefy black iron flanges. Thicker and heavier than the usual green ones.

I like the Taco iron flanges that you purchase. The hex pattern makes for easy "wrenching."

I also use their brass "Freedom" sweat flanges. (Where have I seen this flange before!)

With one more machine step they would have a very unique flange. I put them in my lathe and take a few thousands off the o.d. Then the 3/4" flange fits inside a 1" fitting or ball valve. And the 1" will fit inside a 1-1/4" fitting or ball valve. A nice dual purpose flange to build your own iso flange.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

[Deleted User]

The answer is

no. I have my preferences. They are based on past experience w/ reliability and product support offered by the wholesaler. Flange content, not color, determines re-use or not. When applicable, we replace 3 piece pumps w/ wet rotor or permanently lubricated units.

Steve Minnich_1

Flange color

> of a certain brand, do you replace it with the

> same brand?

>

> I'm curious about this because

> the reason why circulator manufacturers like to

> get their units on packaged boilers is because

> they figure you'll replace like with like down

> the road when the first unit fails.

>

> I can see

> how this was true in years past, but I'm not so

> sure it still holds water (pun intended)

> nowadays. What do you think?

Steve Minnich_1

flange color?

No way I'm going to spin off screwed flanges on a pump replacement because of their color, unless the pump hasn't already been isolated in some way for service repair. In which case I'll spin or sweat on some isoflanges.

Now on new installs, I'm BIG TIME picky. Everything is preplanned to the n'th degree.

Also, I don't have any problem swapping brand names on service replaced pumps as long as characteristics of new pump are what's needed.

Grundfos 15-58 would be the pump I use the most of and is my favorite, followed by B&G and then Taco.

Just My Opinion

Steve

John@Reliable_9

Robert, check your mail

John@Reliable_9

Weezbo, Can't say anything bad about them but ...............

I'm in a service area around Boston where people are always doing something to thier homes. Most of my customers would never even think about doing a boiler. But they could walk by and see a boiler just like what ABC put in our house and see the "wholesale" price of just the boiler and feel "man they charged us $2500.00 labor to put it in"! Most people can't see the other things that go into replacing a system ie: sizing, removal,new piping,flue,wiring,set-up,permits etc. It just drives me crazy, but I do like the product as the small boiler has a big steam rating for only a 3 section. John@Reliable

Steamhead

I agree with BP

I've seen enough misapplied pumps to always check to see if the pump matches the system. Otherwise, brand doesn't matter to me- a good pump is a good pump.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"