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\"But the pool guy said I could\"

Mark Hunt
Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
in THE MAIN WALL
"the pool guy" that he could use PVC to vent his 200k pool heater.

You can see by the pictures what the PVC thought of that idea.

We replaced it all with stainless as per manufacturers specs.

Could have been a disaster.

Mark H

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Comments

  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Would a pool guy lie??

    They didn't even use purple primer & they got bad advice too..Unbelivable!!Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    That! Is unique! :)

    wow! 200k shooting out some cpvc:) Oh WoW! dammm i couldnt even think of that and i think of my self as a bit of a Rouge scientist!:)
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Well


    if you look close, you will see a 3" coupling on a 3" street 90. Since the vent on the boiler was 4", they used the str.90/coupling combo to get a better fit into the STAINLESS STEEL fitting that came off the boiler! LOTS of high temp silicone!

    Tell ya' something else.

    That vent terminates about 6 feet from his kids swing set.

    The swing set has one of those play house attachments which is just above the vent termination.

    Wonder why the kids are so sleepy after they play on the swing?



    Mark H

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  • Pat Clark
    Pat Clark Member Posts: 187
    and the $64000 question is

    Is someone gonna tell the idiot so that maybe he won't do this again????

    Pat Clark
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    Mark Mark...

    Yikes! you made this stuff up ,right? nobody would duct tape it in a cone of silicone...you are just trying to see how gulible we are in alaska... ok you had me actually beliving it until the part of ducting it into the kids plastic playhouse. now, no way on Gods green Earth, could that ever happen... Unless of course its a natural selection sorta deal.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    ALASKA TIME!!!!!!!!!


    The HO did this, and I did tell him.

    I will be talking to the pool guy.

    Why does the image of Bill Murray in "Caddyshack" come to mind? When they were disinfecting the pool? Remember?



    Mark H

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    You can't make this stuff up Weezbo


    He didn't duct it into his kids playhouse, but the kids playhouse is directly over the sidewall termination.

    They are moving in a few weeks, and I told him NOT to let the kids play in the playhouse.

    Sometimes it's like talking to a wall though.

    Mark H

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    I love it!!!!!!!! This is why I always rail against

    the new stuff. It makes it too easy to hurt people. The young pups coming up never used the good ol's stuff and thus have no clue about theory or common sense practices. They think PVC and Pex is the answer to everything. Mad Dog

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  • Steve Minnich_1
    Steve Minnich_1 Member Posts: 127
    Mad Dog

    Even 25 years ago some furnaces were vented with PVC and polybutylene was common in radiant.

    I hear ya though, pretty scary whats going on out there. Thats why I still like doing the work myself. Makes it easier to sleep at night too.

    Steve Minnich
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    More modern technological marvels.........................

    The homeowner and general contractors best friend......stainless steel "NO BURST" hoses.....They just legalized them in NYS, but here's why we will NEVER use them! This puppy let go under the kitchen sink while they were away on vacation...came home to a full, inground, basement swimming pool...ruined all the wood floors on the first floor of the home. Homeowner: "My contractor(GC) said they were better than the old stuff because they are stainless steel and they flex more.....if they aren't reliable...why does home cheapo sell them?" I'm tired of being "guaranteed" that all the latest technolgies are better and will last a hundred years! Yeah we'll see. Mad Dog

  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    I wonder...

    ...what happend here. Sudden pressure spike (i.e. water hammer), very high ambient water pressures, or what? Such hoses don't fail all the time, so why did this one fail?

    I agree that Home Depot hoses are a joke... they offer almost no coverage by the braid. I special-ordered my heavy-duty stainless-lined hoses from Ace Hardware for the washer... they have a much thicker braid than the hose above. You get what you pay for, that's why I don't go much to Home Depot.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Stainless hoses

    I have heard that soap with amonia (cant spell)can eat through the stainless. This is why people that soap test trac pipe and ward flex with house hold soap must clean after the test with water real good.
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Matt

    Somethng else is going on here. My service guys use these all the time for the last five or six years and we have Never had a problem. Maybe I am lucky or maybe something else happened here.

    Chowdaman

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  • Kal Row
    Kal Row Member Posts: 1,520
    just a little point

    pool heaters should by definition be, condensing boilers, based on the less than 120water temps (110 to spa, 90 to pool) and 100gpm+ flows, so the flue discharge temps should not be that hot, of course most of them in the interest of rapid heat, waste, tons and tons and tons… of energy

    in fact many pool timers run the filter for 5+ min after the heater is off to cool down the heat/ex and header to you dont get a copper-braze-open-up or a header-to-pcv connection meltdown

    and even if a unit is PVC ventable - one still needs to use "CPVC" instead of reg schedual40 PVC on the exhaust, “SCH40” is clearly shown in the picture – duh-uh!!


    if you got a meltdown - you may have a problem with flow, check you filter - is the pressure above 15psi - that’s a red flag!!!! - the pool heater should have cut-outs, does it have a pressure switch? - is the loop tube leading to it filled with oil like it’s supposed to?, is the a header’s high limit switch, connected and operating? - these are questions you need answers to, stat!!!

    i happen to be an authorized larrs service person - and i see some really dangerous installs! – ah, the stupid things people do – Darwin’s “process of natural selection” is not working, – “stupidity” should have been de-selected from the human gene pool a long time ago – of course – Darwin is wrong, there is a god, and he’s laughing so hard, I can hear him all the way from heaven…
    a reality show based on our experiences would be very entertaining – at least to others, probably make us cringe…
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Yes, I know, it was scary then and scary now

    but many continue to do it. PVC is ok for a air intake, but I prefer ss. PVC is ok for residential DWV, but the stuff I see that's been in for 25 years is not holding up nearly as well as cast Iron or even galvanized that is in for 60 years. Poly=BUTE...well, need I say any more...Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    NONSENSE! SCOTTY

    No, they don't all!!!! fail, but when they do........someone's gonna pay. Bottom line, a copper speedy will only split open like that on a freeze up. Pressure spike? That can happen 10 times a day on a home's water system. I don't care what anyone says, they are inferior. Mad Dog

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Yes but


    when the instructions tell you to use stainless, you have to use stainless.

    Mark H

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  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Matt

    My town has such high preasure ( 110 lbs, in places ), that all homes are required by state law to have preasure reducing valves. Some homes do not have them and still have these flex connectors installed.

    I'll stand by the fact that we have not had one leak from these. Thats is not to say that a 3/8 copper supply is not better. For new installations all we use is copper, but for repairs ...

    Scott

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  • EJW
    EJW Member Posts: 321
    SS Flexies

    If you install these in a home with no pressure reducer, yes you could be in trouble. I install Fluidmasters supplies on every thing with no probs, and yes you are correct Mad Dog, PVC and pex are the answer to everything...lol!
  • Matt Undy
    Matt Undy Member Posts: 256


    Waht aobut proper UV inhibitors in PVC? Did they even try back then? Do they do it now? Was it like old cloth and tar SEC that would last forever if you apinte dit but would be falling apart in 15 years or so if you didn't?

    Matt
  • Matt Undy
    Matt Undy Member Posts: 256


    I actually have trouble finding copper supply lines nowdays. Entire aisle of plastic and SS covered palstic tubing of various types but no copper over 12" or in 1/2".

    Matt
  • paul lessard_3
    paul lessard_3 Member Posts: 186
    I think the pool guy does siding too !!!!!!!!!

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  • paul lessard_3
    paul lessard_3 Member Posts: 186
    I think this pool guy does siding to !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Can you guess which on is the exaust on this furnace???????????????????

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  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    Paul...That cant be ....That just cant be!

    You must be looking at a hrv vent too close to one another... Noone would put the flue gas out a vent for vynil.let me guess next your going to say one is the dryervent or kitchen vent:))))
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    I don't

    want to know which ones is the make air :(

    Chowda

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    What happened is.........a hydro-hernia

    The stainless steel braided mesh (stomach muscle)which is suppossed to contain the thin rubber tube (intestine)ruptured at its weakest point. The fluidmaster hoses are generally the best ones, but I have seen them burst too, Scott. Just don't want to see you have any unnecessary headaches. Besides, the nice tubing bender that Rigid makes is easy to use And makes tight radius, neat looking bends. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    This is what I'm talking about

    these state-of-the-art materials are very, very unforgiving and require tons of commonsense and a good grasp of theory. Problem is many of today's techs have no background in the old, tried and true materials or methods. They are "plastic plumbers," and in many cases lack the commonsense and safety practices that the materials and methods of yesterday required. I repeat, they think you can do ANYTHING with plastic and they often do not even bother to check if it is appropriate or safe. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    That flex supply burst in an area

    with 40-50 psi - not high at all! Hey - Rubber garden hose is cheap and is real easy to work with.....why not use it? That's the trend this industry is following and unfortunately there are too many lemmings cheerfully running toward the cliff. Let's put it to the Homeowners here: Are you secure with having flex supplies that can occassionally burst and ruin your home or would you prefer a reliable stalwart? Your choice! Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Well, that's why we have mail order companies like Wolverine

    Brass who can mail them to you. Their stuff is high quality, fairly-priced AND MOST OF IT is MADE IN THE USA!. email them at : sales@wolverinebrass.com. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Ain't it really frustrating Mark....when

    they look at you like you came and knocked on THEIR door and starting criticizing everything for the heck of it. Some people's commonsense is about as thick as a block wall. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Why take a shortcut on repairs?

    With all other things being equal, A bad flex connector doesn't know whether it is connected to a new faucet or old. Aside from the damage potential, flex connectors take any skill and competence out of our trade - anyone can do it, and it debases our skills down to the lowest common denominator. Scott, buy one ridgid bender and give it to your best tech. He will love it, and want to "bend" all the time...he will have renewed pride, the work will look sharper...his skills will be sharpened, and he will apply that to ther work he does. Mad Dog

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  • EJW
    EJW Member Posts: 321


    That's it, from now on I am only installing cast iron drainage and pouring all the joints. I am throwing away all my pex & crimp tools and am hand threading brass water lines.
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Are you sure you still have the skills?

    Did you ever? I am old school, but I am not a dinosaur. I use the newer products that pass muster like PEX on heating. However, you CANNOT deny the performance and longevity of cast iron, brass and copper. I'll take 80-100 years of reliable service. Mad Dog

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  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Fascinating

    Should I send you the rotted piece of cast iron drain pipe that fell apart under the kitchen? I'm pretty sure its less than 100 years old, seeing that the house was not built with internal plumbing. Granted, this was a horizontal run and was thus more prone to rusting out... the vertical stacks by comparison looked great... however, the "happiest" pipes were the original lead water pipes: clean as a whistle, no corrosion, thick walls, easy to bend. Perhaps we should have continued using them also? ;-)

    Anyway, I guess all I'm trying to say is that each material has its plusses and minuses. The trick IMO is to figure out which material makes the most sense for a given application. For example, I currently spec out vertical cast iron risers for the DWV even though the rest of the house uses PVC DWV and vents. Why use CI? Because I don't have enough room to fully insulate the PVC from the living spaces. I simply do not want to listen to whatever whistling by in the drain system when someone is using the toilet, shower, or whatever upstairs.
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Yes, certain applications warrant certain materials

    But C.I. under a kitchen sink is quite odd - they usually went to galvanized Durham Fittings from the cast Iron hub. All depends on how it was installed back then too. Without proper pitch ot too much pitch the ;ife of the drain can be greatly affected. As for the lead - I agree leave it until it goes. The calcium annd minerals that coat lead water services serve as a protective buffer between the raw lead and the drinking water. Lead was a wonderful material in use for a few thousand years, but has been severely maligned. Once again ...alot of hype and fear mongering. If you don't actually eat lead or mercury, you'll be fine. FACT! Mad Dog

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