It really is disheartening......................................

Mad Dog

overall. This DAMNED HOUSE of mine is in the final leg of a long race. To date, I had to throw off the roofer, the spackler, and, now, maybe the second spackler and maybe even the painter. Unbelievable! They all came highly recommended and the references checked out. And NONE was the cheapest. The True Craftsman that reside here at tHe Wall don't need anyone to point out shoddiness, mistakes or imperfection - We police ourselves and are our own worse critics. Just from my own house, I have seen that the vast majority of contractors will try to get you to accept substandard work if they can. The best crew I had in was the tile crew, which happen to be Dan's Relatives. They were excellent. All I can say is this: To The True Craftsman who always do the best job...you are worth every penny....and more. To the homeowners: I know its tough and a leap of faith, but the folks here at the Wall are generally excellent and you would not have the problems that I have had. Find A Professional is a very solid bet. Mad Dog

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JimGPE_8

I like it when

I get sent to the dictionary. Paucity - a nice new word to add to my vocabulary!

Thanks!

Mad Dog

Hey I gotta use words like that once in awhile or

pHI bETA kAPPA WITH THROW ME OUT!!!!! Mad Dog

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Constantin

Sorry to hear about your house troubles...

... as a fellow remodler/rebuilder HO, I can relate. Todays morning was spent with my 5-axis self-leveling Laser gizmo to determine the true extent of the foundation as opposed to what the surveyors staked out. In new construction, an inch here or there isn't a big deal - the carpenter can easily take care of it as long as the walls are square.

In our case, the house literally looms 15' above. Since it's already built, there isn't much wiggle room with respect to the foundation. Either it fits or it does not. In our case, we determined that the foundation stakes were consistently off by 2" in one direction, and 1" in another. Since the foundation contractor had already assembled his forms (custom-milled true 12" wide boards no less), he was about to pull his hair out.

Luckily, the house-lifters will be able to move the house laterally to come down on the right spot. However, this episode illustrated to me why these surveyors will only be invited once more onto the property - when we're done and they sign off the as-built. From now on, I am going to rely on my contractors trusted subs instead of finding folks on recommendation like the surveyors.

On the other hand, we pour the footings tomorrow. Yay!

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I feel for ya'

It's even worse in areas like mine where wages are very low and anyone with much talent to speak of leaves for "better" places.

Had a fire in my store/bar last summer. Electrical in origin and started in a wooden storage addition to a solid brick (triple-wythe) building. Fire shouldn't have made it to the building proper, but it followed UNSEALED holes (for A/C lineset & power) left where nobody could see up in the attic space of the addition. Of course holes lead to the electric/mechanical room, so the entire electrical system was toast.

Electrical contractor we've used and specified a few times before (good work when HE was doing it) said there was "no problem" and he could also get a crew for the other work (mainly cosmetic) and sub out the tile/carpeting.

Missing: one working TV; an old (but nice) wooden bench.

His electrical crew (hadn't seen this bunch before) told us, "We don't need no plans--we'll put it back like it was." Yea, sure! All the behind bar outlets were institutional grade (solid nylon with the 20-amp leg). That area didn't even see a fire hose let alone any fire, but they removed all the plugs and replaced with the cheapest, crappiest things made. Told me that they "tossed them"--yea sure! It took them at least 10 hours and three re-dos to hook up a bank of four ceiling fan w/separate light switches. After the first problem I'd even hung numbered tags from the ceiling fans and put a legend on the wall below the switches but they STILL did it wrong two more times!

Tried to replace the solid core mechanical room door (it prevented the fire from coming into the bar proper) with a cheap hollow-core and then had the audacity to tell me that it was a hollow-core door there to begin with!

Told them that all of the circuits for the dance floor lighting had to be EXACTLY as in my plan (I insisted they have a plan for that) with NOTHING else on them as they would be turned off each night. Guess what--the once dual circuit plugs in the behind-bar island are now on the same 20-amp circuit as 1,500 watts of big stage floods! Cash registers, a Jet Spray, a big blender, a Jagermeister chiller and other small things are on that circuit as well!

After being disgusted with summer electric bills I had all of the cooler condensing units remote-mounted on the roof. Specified the best compressors and it wasn't cheap even though I did all of the work save the actual condensor installations. They're all 110v but they hooked them up to 220!!! All the starting caps and most of the pressure controls for fans/compressors fried and one of the compressors bit the dust.

I have a range in the store downstairs--they hooked it up with 10 gauge wire and it's at least 70' of wire away from the breaker box--with two splices (in boxes) to boot! It's plainly marked and how it passed inspection I'll never know...

Flooring sub over-ordered the expensive asphalt tile by about three cases and tried to walk out with those and the room-size carpet "scrap".

At least my friendly reefer/heat man that I contracted did a good job and the contractor's painter was good as well.

If I heard "two weeks" again I was going to prop their eyes open with toothpicks, tie them into chairs and force them to watch "The Money Pit" on repeat play!

John@Reliable_9

Word of the Day for Thursday July 3, 2003

First time I've heard the word used

paucity PAW-suh-tee, noun:
1. Fewness; smallness of number; scarcity.
2. Smallness of quantity; insufficiency.

doug_16

It must be the same everywhere.

I fired the first electrician when he was charging me for work not done. Messed up the mew main service box. His helper drilled holes in the brick of my 1910 building to attach clips to hold the main service riser and then put in tiny expansion screws and clips. Of course they fell off in a minute. Found a new electrician and this one we can hand the key to and know the work will be done properly and on a timely basis.

The first contractor- nothing square or level. Corner bead on the drywall is coming off. Messed up the concrete floor, he paid to grind it smooth, still looks like an amateur did it.

Plumber/heating contractor- "We'll be there on Tuesday at 8:00AM". I forgot to ask what week/month. They have improved significantly but am still waiting for QHT to fix the beastly noisy Vega.

Acadia Sunrooms, sun room specialist: a complete disaster, finally after 3 years of his trying to fix it my new carpenter tore it down and rebuilt it. Looks fantastic and is DRY- whooohooo!!! Won't tell you the name of our current carpenter, he is mine and he is the best I have met, he also gets a key when needed.

What is amazing is that people actually recommended some of these bad contractors so I have stopped asking, the info is of no value.

Mad Dog

Thanks

Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

I is not alone is I?

Mad Dog

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J.C.A._3

Matt,

From What I'm seeing daily....NO, you ain't! Chris

Mad Dog

I know...I see it everyday too, but

you think...hope...that you "know" really good contractors. Quite a few "freinds" and collegues have really let me down....and some strangers have really impressed me. Mad Dog

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Ken D.

True Craftsman

One of the biggest problems is that the US has lost so many industrial jobs that those guys are now in the trades where they should'nt be. A guy gets some tools, an old truck and he's in business. Also the wall street philosophy has taken hold. That is make a lot of money, but don't work for it. Even so, the "reputable businesses" must shoulder some of the blame. How many times have you heard where a Reputable" guy didn't return a phone call or surveyed a job only to leave the customer hanging because they couldn't be bothered. I get some good customers from a national franchisee because thats how he treats his customers. This cuts across all trades. You also have those that charge the "going rate" who never made money and never will at his labor rates. One call back and he goes from breaking even or losing a little to losing a lot. And of course he never calls the customer again. One thing I have noticed in the last few years is that there are more and more immigrant contractors that have it all over the natives in reliability. So all you tradesmen that practice the aformentioned. Your jobs may not be so secure.

Weezbo

ok NEW HOUSE...

What amazes me is the electricians phone bleams the garage door closes:))) about ten mins later the garage door opens:))) No I aint drinking and i dont use drugs ...Who Knows:)))))

Murph'_5

High Expectations !!!

Hard to find middle ground sometimes, and very hard not to get bitter. Best to offer work to people you know with an approach of what they can do for regular prices, then if the job is sweet and they want to discount at that point thats' ok also !! then they wont be scared to bid nor feel like thier working too cheap !!



Murph'

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Constantin

Mike, I'm sorry to hear about all that.

Your repair saga is pretty disheartening and illustrates why I took a part-time job while the house construction is going on instead of going corporate.

Trust is nice, control is better. Unless I'm holding their off-spring at an undisclosed location, awaiting my sign-off of the job as satisfactory, I cannot trust them. It's also why I hired a GC to keep the whole project together. I'll gladly pay the 15% overhead as long as every move is coordinated on site.

Kal Row

my favorite line from that movie...

"smoooooth strrooohhks - ahhp an down ... paint .. dohn teeekkel"

Paul Mitchell_2

I am with you..

1. Had tree guys cut some down in the back last year...broke our birdbath, didnt tell us, and left a couple mounds of ground stump I had to cart in woods.

2. Finally was getting my beautiful wife a new kitchen. Picked out the cabinets from a cabinet guy. He recommended a installer. He came and looked, older guy and seemed to be good. I flat out told him that I just want it done...price was not an issue. I did demo, rough plumbing, electric, etc. He had two kids come and sheet rock and spackle. They did a good job...I paid them directly. Waited to hear when rest would continue...two weeks pass. Now the entire kitchen is in my garage. He finally shows...I ended up painting the walls and ceiling while I waited. Starts to tile. Does not finish tile and starts to grout. Weeks and weeks go by....I scheduled a few days and me and one of the guys installed the kitchen...Came out great. The best thing is there was no money exchanged...Only the cost of the tile which was at my house. Even gained a nice framing hammer out of it.

Half of the battle is getting people to just do what they say...let alone do it good. I am sorry for your troubles and everyone elses but at least I am not crazy...I just wanted one project done without my sweat and time involved. So much for that. Kitchen came out great though.
Project started in Feb 03 was completed in June 03....Would have taken me Two weeks start to finish....go figure

John Conway

This DAMNED HOUSE

Yeah, I've seen that program a time or two.... Which channel was that...?

Living in a approx. 100 year old (two pipe steam) house built of native stone, slate roof, ancient everything in the southeast U.S., I've come to the sad conclusion that most of the trades around here are woefully misrepresented by "guys in old trucks", to paraphrase another's posting here. My anecdotes of misdiagnosis, overcharging, shoddy workmanship, etc. are familiar enough and all too common.

Occasionally I have found talented, honest, diligent, creative tradesmen. You can bet I give them my business, don't complain about the bill & recommend them at every opportunity. Nevertheless, I'm pushed into DIY in self-defense.

My thanks to the professionals here who offer their expertise & their humor.

Peace.

Susan_6

Susie Homeowner

I've had my share of hacks too. But two good stories.

Water in the basement so I call the national franchises plus one local guy. The local showed up and said we have the worst possible combination of problems: rock ledge, stone foundation and slopping land. He said he could charge us thousands of $ but didn't know if it would fix the problem. He suggested some hardwork solutions for the homeowner to do. Tasks not yet completed, but problem better.

Second story. Brand new wood front door with expensive mortise lock. I tell the door installer the send someone who knows about mortise locks, but the scheduler ignored that. The installer made a horrible mess of the lock and actual damaged some of the internal mechanism. The owner of the installation company came and inspected the job. They decided that they did not have the expertise to fix the lock and told me to hire a locksmith of my choice and they would pay the bill. The bill came to $280 for parts and labor, which certainly cut into their profit. Still, they were ethical and above board and would get my recommendation.

Now, if I could just get the architect to call me back. . .

Dave Faust

How about?

I worked for a couple who owned a 50 employee comercial hvac design/build company in the 1980's. Most of his work was hourly w/ total costs not to exceed a specified amount. It seemed to work.
Maby those days are over. Nowdays architecturaly certified design w/ plenty of rigid specifications (that are enforced by building regulation athorities)would seem to protect all involved parties. Sure in would cost more. Not everyone would want to play, but then that wouldn't be all bad.

KBP&H