CSST, fire,lightning...golly it frightning

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an article in the May JLC dealing with fires caused by lightning traveling and arcing across CSST to ground causing a hole, or holes, and in some cases fire. Who'd-a thunk?

Meanwhile May PM mag has a column by Julius Ballanco describing a new press fit fitting for use as a copper tube gas connections. Apparantly a special 800°F o-ring makes it possible. Hmmmm!! Good to know the o-ring might survive the fire :)

Maybe it's time to debut my dual tube (ala solar roll)pipe system. Gas on one side, fire supression in the other, in one simple easy to install roll :)

Hey! maybe include hydronic heating and free cooling in the promo :) Dual fuel heat sourse!

I had a really close call with CSST early on. Ran some through a crawl space to feed some fireplace log lighters. I used wrapped black steel into the masonary and fire box and transitioned to CSST in the joist bay below.

Weeks later a gas smell call comes in. I rush over open the crawl space door and the gas smell was very strong. Meter off, I aired out the space and crawled in. The stone mason had acid washed the fire place rock and some acid dripped down through the subfloor and splashed on the CSST near the fitting, where the plastic had been stripped. Didn't take long to eat a hole into the thin walled CSST. I still quiver thinking about that call!

hot rod

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Weezbo

Yikes! Now ,ya got me thinking.....

grrrr ....What next? we responsible....it is as if God gets a few people to do something right and the rest of em go ouuta their way to figure Some Possible Concievable way to Fornicate it up!....
.well,i guess i best go check....just in case...

steve gates

ever been in

a house on fire. I not sure a 800deg. ring is going hold up. Not sure csst will either. First thing we did with a fire was turn off the gas tho. Ah those were the days.

doug_10

I had it happen in a Greenhouse where the lightning followed the aluminum bars and made a hole in the Water Heater Titeflex tubing. Amazingly it did not catch fire- Eb

Unknown

CSST scares the hell out of me

I've used it many times and love how easily it goes in. However, there are many potential dangers involved with this type of product and I'm opposed to some of the installation practices that are allowed by most Manufacturers.

If we are allowed to snake this tubing between floors on an outside wall, what will happen (years later) when the siding gets changed and the contractor uses nail guns with longer nails than he should? Family goes BOOM!

CSST has it's place but I believe that it's useage in residential applications is generally cheapening our industry. Gas fitting is dangerous business. I feel a whole lot better with steel pipe. It's just so much stronger. Some nice folks are going to die because CSST was used in their homes. Time will tell.

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Constantin

Depends on Installation, No?

One entry over at Google shows that the city of San Jose does not condone the installation of Corrugated Stainless Steel tubing (CSST) in exterior walls or any location where nailing or stapling damage is likely.

I agree with you however that CSST is not going to withstand a nail or other force the way that a thick black iron pipe would. Unlike PEX vs. Cu in potable water applications, the possible damage is much greater with gas. To date, we are currently planning on using CSST in our home.

I plan to be quite careful with the CSST... for one, it will not traverse multiple floors, secondly, it will be mounted in the open. I guess I am one of the few homeowners that actually likes seeing infrastructure running across the basement ceiling. Though considering how little pipe we'll be using, perhaps sticking with black iron is the way to go.

Matt Undy

Bonding

> an article in the May JLC dealing with fires

> caused by lightning traveling and arcing across

> CSST to ground causing a hole, or holes, and in

> some cases fire. Who'd-a thunk?

>

> Meanwhile

> May PM mag has a column by Julius Ballanco

> describing a new press fit fitting for use as a

> copper tube gas connections. Apparantly a

> special 800°F o-ring makes it possible. Hmmmm!!

> Good to know the o-ring might survive the fire

>

>

> Maybe it's time to debut my dual tube (ala

> solar roll)pipe system. Gas on one side, fire

> supression in the other, in one simple easy to

> install roll

>

> Hey! maybe include hydronic

> heating and free cooling in the promo Dual

> fuel heat sourse!

>

> I had a really close call

> with CSST early on. Ran some through a crawl

> space to feed some fireplace log lighters. I used

> wrapped black steel into the masonary and fire

> box and transitioned to CSST in the joist bay

> below.

>

> Weeks later a gas smell call comes in.

> I rush over open the crawl space door and the gas

> smell was very strong. Meter off, I aired out

> the space and crawled in. The stone mason had

> acid washed the fire place rock and some acid

> dripped down through the subfloor and splashed on

> the CSST near the fitting, where the plastic had

> been stripped. Didn't take long to eat a hole

> into the thin walled CSST. I still quiver

> thinking about that call!

>

> hot rod

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 144&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Matt Undy

Bonding

What are the bonding requirements of the gas piping system? Obviously it isn't to be used as a gounding electrode, but it shouldn't be allowed to get to a different potential than the other conductive systems in the building. I don't know what the NEC has to say about this. I don't have a reference handy right now. Were the bonding requirements followed in theese cases? Perhaps additional requirements are needed?

Do you have a link to the article?

Matt

hr

a link to JLC article

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/view.pdf/6529e883dc231443166a058b217f53c8/www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/40a125df0006019b27177f0000010531

If not, go to www.JLConline.com and click on view current issue. A good mag to subscribe to, by the way, regardless of your trade.

They also review new tile installation manual "2003-2004 Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installations" from the TCA, has new sections on radiant and tile installs. www.tileusa.com

Also read about Michael Jordan suing the manufacture of the EFIS on his home.

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Dale

This happened to us

We had a csst lightning leak last year, in the attic where the csst got near some duct work, 2 potentials and a thin wall = a leak. Good idea to keep the csst away from other metal if possible.

hr

This is exactly what happens when welders thaw

water lines, sometimes. The current from the welder finds and jumps to a ground, maybe a water or copper drain line, even jumps over to a ground wire inside romex wire.

This arc, sometimes inside a wall un beknownst to the "thawer" starts the fire.

I would say keeping the CSST away from any grounded metallic component would be a good start.

How far away is the million dollar question. How far can the current from a bolt of lightning jump an arc?

hot rod

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Constantin

Well, let's see...

... the lightning just came from more than a mile up. Through an ionized "ladder" that reaches up into the sky and leads it down. My guess is that lightning jumps wherever it damn well pleases. The only hope you have is to create a path of low resistance that causes the least damage to your home.

So much damage can occur in houses, even when lightning is kept on the outside via proper lightning rods, thick leaders, and a good ground with a low-resistance connection. The induced currents can be pretty horrendous and every house has vertical wiring.

The truely paranoid could sheathe their CSST gas lines in thick copper braid (the thin stuff vaporizes too easily). However, at that price point black pipe may become somewhat more attractive.