Living history! (PAH)

Dave Yates (PAH)

Yesterday, I had an opportunity to study why several rooms of an 8,000 square foot home weren't cooling sufficiently. Both are now serving as bedrooms for young children. As it turned out, this was originally the maid's quarters and not included in the original 1934 A/C experiment installed within the home of the then VP of York International. Newer A/C equipment has long since replaced the original units, but the architectural drawings detail their size and placement (buried refrigerant lines with the condenser on the far side of the garage). All of the original ductwork remains in tact. A mechanical contractor had recently been hired to route ductwork to these upper floor bedrooms. Taking the elevator to the basement, I had an opportunity to survey the recent add-on.

The materials used and length of run will allow for just 75 CFM to each bedroom. After measuring the rooms and utilizing my Elite software for Manual J calcs, it was painfully obvious why these rooms are sweat boxes. 293% short of what's required in each room!

That's when the questions began regarding creature comforts. Turns out there's lots of complaints regarding both the A/C and the 75-year-old two-pipe steam system with the butchered piping job on the replacement boiler I'd taken notice of while following the ductwork through the boiler room. Very wet steam is coursing through those steel veins. Solution that didn't work? Install a feed water tank. "Sounds like a steel mill at night."

Seems no one ever asked them if they were comfortable before! They had asked for radiant heating in the remodeled tiled-floor kitchen and been told it couldn't be done :( Instead, they now have a steam rad parked in the middle island cabinet area - piped up in copper and exposed for all to see (all other rads within the home are recessed convectors).

I was given a set of the original architectural drawings to take along so we can begin exploring ways to bring this home into the comfort zone. The ductwork and steam piping are both artfully rendered in splendid detail.

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Robert O'Connor_7

AC system..

Steamhead

Vapor and A/C

sounds like that Dead Man was using his house as a testbed, like so many of us do.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

The old coal boiler

covered in some sort of white stuff(G) remains where it served. An antique gas conversion burner with twin jets attached. Another conversion burner - oil fired - rests no longer used and forlorn in a corner, its twinned oil tanks long since abandoned. Cast aways. No one ever bothered to carry off the equipment they replaced!

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

And let me guess...

...in addition to the undersized [new] A/C supplies, no returns are in the rooms.

Am currently working on an attic apartment creation/renovation (all FA--sorry) but I'm going to find out just how well hi/lo returns work.

Dave Yates (PAH)

very astute

and intuitive. You are correct sir!

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

I'm from the land of lousy central A/C retrofits. That return out in the hall [often downstairs] is all I need--there's plenty of airspace under the door...

Steamhead

Who made

the boiler and conversion burners? How about some pics?

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Boilerpro_3

Mike some thoughts

I had the priviledge of reworking on a FA system built by one of the finest and sharpest engineers/ contractors in my area in the 1950's. Here's how it was set up.

All supply vents were located about 7 feet up the wall (8 foot ceilings). I believe all returns were at the floor.
All ductwork and vents were sized for very low velocities. The air handler used a hot water coil on full reset (indoor sensor with proprotional mixing valve), so the supply air temps reset right down to room temp. I don't believe the supply air ever got much over 85F even in the coldest weather due to the large air volume moved. The air handler ran continuously throughout the winter providing constant air turnover in the space. This combination resulted in very low air movement and hot air stratification and exceptional comfort. A central air coil had been added in the early sixies to the unit (gretly oversized A/C) and alos seem to work well.
I think this may be the best FA system avialable.

Boilerpro

Christian Egli

AC doesn't really mean the air has to be cold

Considering that prior to the AC age the buildings that had air ducts had them only for make-up air, and the viciated air leaking out the roof and open windows, it was enough to provide few CFM through a large basement fan. The rest was handled by convection and gravity.

I can see how the first AC installations were made within design specifications for these large make-up air systems.

It is interesting to see through your calculations how far off the design was. I wonder how slowly the design values were adjusted over the years to come up with something that worked. Are there any other houses in your area that were built by other VPs at York, say one in 1935 and one in 1936 and so on? It could be neat to see what was learned over the years.

I was involved with a 1918 building that had a large the-basement-is-your-plenum type of make-up air unit, with 100% outside air coming in through an evaporative cooling tower for summer cooling. Rain water was saved in a cistern for that purpose as it is much softer than water that can be had from a well around here. For the winter, there was (and still is) a steam coil. The treated air was then moved through the basement hall ways and then through ducts coming out under each radiator. Viciated air was let go through holes in the ceiling and air stacks whithin the walls. The only moving part was the giant fan blocking the entrance to the main hall way. In this building AC is now handled through independant ducts and broken down into individual systems for each room or group of rooms.

It's nice talking about this stuff.

Dave Yates (PAH)

new work - no design - seat of pants

The old ductwork is beatifully designed and it's obvious that the sheet metal fabricator was an artisan. Sweeping curves with compound angles that match their mates with no gaps.

Then comes the stabbed on new flex duct that runs in sharply twisted angles for far too long and then attaches to wall stack. The lowest common denominator is the flex duct, which has the highest resistance to flow - hence the 75 CFM limitation. The wall stack by itself still wouldn't carry the air flow needed, even if there wasn't any flex.

Steamhead - If we get the work, I'll be sure to snap some photos and get more info on the old beastie.

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