homeowners and radiant

ed wallace

I had an interesting conversation with a homeowner last night he has a oil fired boiler that needs help does not want to pay to have it serviced properly even tho oil co can clean and do effency test in under 30 minutes also wants to add a zone of radiant heat when i asked whos program he used to size radiant he told me he wrote his own program the parameters he used are inside temp 70 degrees out door temp 10 degress and told me 3/8 pex is fine that the smaller the pex the faster it will heat up

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Nron_9

home owner

If the home owner doesnt want to even service the equipment he has I sujest you leave and right him a letter stating that you will do the job if he allows you to run your own heat loss and will service the equipment , if you touch it you will be responsable if anything bad happens and keep a copy of the letter

hr

Not wanting

to properly service the equipment seems odd. Not something to be done by an average homeowner without analyzers and knowledge on the use

As for the radiant, it is quite possible to do a "long hand" heatloss calc. Formulas and free loss calculators are everywhere these days. 3/8 and even 5/16" tubing is commonly used, and should not be a problem IF it "fits the application." The loss and design calcs will tell the tale. Usually shorter loops, and sometimes more pump HP are the trade off for small id tube.

Why did he call you??

hot rod

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ed wallace

call

He wanted someone to service the burner and maybe install i gas fired boiler and do the radiant install tried telling him free gas boiler really does not mean free just because the gas co. is giving them away free as to heat loss he would not listen to me that his settings are wrong for boston ma. area and that cleaning boiler and testing takes more tim then 1/2 hr

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George_10

I would be wary of this guy

He will be a constant thorn in your side in the future if anything goes wrong. I would pass if it were me.

hr

The correct approch

you need to know the facts! You are right to insist on an accurate calc and design. Better to walk away than install a job based on a guess. Same with the boiler replacement. insist on your loss and design calc, that you can stand behind.

hot rod

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Murph'_5

Ed it is obvious....

This cat does not have a clue, dubble your price to do what you "know needs done" and submit it and tell him to call if he wants to persue the project. If he balks at that then the best way to explain it would be that if He insist on doing incorrectly for the purpose of saving dullars, then how is he gonna afford to pay to have it done correctly later !! take the high road on this ED, I know you want to help, but you still need to sleep at nite!


Murph'

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Constantin

Second the motion

Your homeowner seems to be more concerned with doing this his way than doing them correctly. Doing heat loss calculations by hand is a nice anachronism but they're fraught with possible errors. Going well away from industry norms for tubing is not only potentially contentious for the pumps (though dealing with a high head loss is not as bad as it used to be), but may open a can of worms later on when the system goes into service.

If you are still willing to do this job, I'd get it in writing that you advised the homeowner that said installation was trouble, that it was designed by him, that if it does not work it's not your fault, blah blah. Then pad the bill for some serious call-back issues. Not worth the trouble, IMHO.

Weezbo

Hold down...dont dash at the experience....

What you say ,is that you can do the conversion and have replaced the supply lines in a larger home with 3/8 in a retro fit application,however at this time you would prefer to use the materials that are more common place and less expensive...if he no like the sound of that then ladd may God bless you with a better job closer to home.

Unknown

Ed, I've seen this job.

His heat loss was done long hand using nothing more than a spreadsheet program and it looks as if it was done correctly to me. He's read Siggy's book. Only 47,000 BTUs total. It's not a HUGE place.

He NEEDS a new boiler and an indirect as well. He just had a new gas service put in and wants a condensing boiler. However, I don't think that condensing is the way to go in this house. Low mass fin-tube. It also needs to be quiet being right next to his media room.

If I had more time, I'd take this one. The H.O. is quite knowledgeable and just needs a little guidance to decide what is the most logical systematic approach.

Let us know how you make out.

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