Ornate radiator, changing size

tim smith_2

Any of you out there had any luck with separating old American Standard rococco radiators and re assembly to make different widths as needed. Any input helpfuL, always wanted to figure this out.

Joe_30

Yesterday we separated a newer 1950's thin tube radiator.. Wooden wedges did not work. Wood too soft. So I used a thin bladed 3/4 trimming axe blade as a wedge and a 5 pound maul to tap it in. Of course this only works with a radiator joined with push nipples and tie rods. It eased apart cleanly.

The funny thing was trying to extract the push nipples without harm to anything. Nothing worked. Then I gave the discard section of the radiator a heavy rap, since it did not matter if it self- destructed. The nipple spit out and flew five feet. Sensing the oportunity for empirical reseach, I hit the others..and they all popped out.!

Anybody have a suggestion for the best dope to use to rejoin the separated parts?? I'd like that advice. joe

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Technically it's strictly a metal-metal connection (like the mating surfaces of unions) and no dope is required.

That said, I like put a medium bead of high-temp silicon around the nipple/section joint (nipple already inserted in one section) before adding the next section. Since the sections are old and the nipples are probably re-used as well, it can't hurt and I've never had a leak.

tim smith_2

no no no

I am talking about the old ornates with reverse thread nipple connections. Want to know if anyone has had any luck on refitting sections on this.

Steamhead

All but the early Rococos

used those right-left nipples to join the sections. Unfortunately, these are difficult if not impossible to disassemble.

Is this a steam or hot-water system?

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Mad Dog

As Steamhead said....its rough

I would try to find a way to cut down the input to that rad. Thats what steamhead was driving at with his "hot water or steam" question. Hot water you can cut down flow rather easily. Steam will be more tricky- especially if its one-pipe, but it can be done. Mad Dog

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Matt Undy

It seems it would be a good idea to use dope or even grease or oil as a lubricant to help the metal to metal press fit slide together more easily so the surfaces stay smooth instead of galing or binding before they fully seat (but it could also make it easier to push the nipple in enough to crack the casting if that can be done). The oil reduces the force needed to push the nipple in a given distance, but becuase its taper is still the same, it will have the same sealing force agianst the side of the casting at that depth of insertion. The RTV would have a similar lubricating effect and it would seal up any small voids in the seating of the nipple. The silicone also wouldn't get oil into the system to cause problems with steam production.

As far as removing the push nippple from the section it didn't pull out of, have you considered a long drift from the opposite opening in the casting against the back of the nipple, similar to how one removes outer races of bearings and seals.

Matt

tim smith_2

steamhead, they are water

> used those right-left nipples to join the

> sections. Unfortunately, these are difficult if

> not impossible to disassemble.

>

> Is this a

> steam or hot-water system?

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 157&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

tim smith_2

Regarding size

Mad dog, Its not the output but the physical size I am thinking about. I have tried pulling right/left nipples out of them before to no avail. Wondering if anyone had any luck with this in the past.

Joe_30

Warning, I forgot to tell you. Hitting the radiator sections, which I intended to discard, did indeed pop the barrel nipples out, but it also leaves hairline cracks in the section. Do not do this on a good section.
Joe

Christian Egli

effortless removal of nipples

Hey gang, here is the easy and ultimate way to deal with fittings that do not come loose on their own.

I learned this from my father, he used to show me his tricks and it made him look like a genius, indeed he was, and I learned a lot.

With the use of an oxy-acetylen torch you can either shrink or burn your iron nipple.

To shrink, first quickly heat a tiny bright red spot on the inside of the nipple, then let everything get cold. If things did not shrink enough, make another or more of the little spots. Then method works by adding local internal stress to the metal. Nothing can resist. This method does not work too good on threaded joints but it will save both halves for reuse. Apply some penetrating oil.

The final solution for an iron or steel nipple in a cast iron fitting or radiator is to burn it away. This works well with cast iron because of the great difficulty (impossibility) to weld it. Set the torch with an excess of oxygen. By being a little careful you can melt and burn away the nipple without damage to the thread. Re-thread the hole just to clean it out and you're back in business. It is usually enough to only burn through a (~1/4 in) cut along the nipple, and then chisel out the rest. Steel burns! ever thrown a tin can into a raging coal fired stove only to find no remains in the ash drawer? Magic or mystery?

With a radiator, or any large cast iron part, be mindful of thermal shock. Apply gradual heat before reaching burning temperatures.

Also, it is easy to do this in a shop with concrete floors but it cannot be done around wood floors.

Christian Egli

Shellac

I find that shellac works good to seal things. I like it partly because it is old-fashionned but it remains sticky for a very long time and can be spread out real thin, which is key to a tight seal.

Seems to help in unions but will not overcome knicks and groves in the mating faces of the union.

Matt Undy

There are also a few somewhat less drastic methods of loosening rusted parts. Simply heating rust to somewhere near cherry hot will drive the hydrate (water) out of the crystal structure and turn it into a much softer substance. Also, if you can heat the outer piece more than the inner piece, the hole in the outer piece gets larger as it expands form the heat, so the fit gets looser if you heat only the outer piece. According to some of the information about raditors on other parts of this site, double threaded nipples are no longer avialable, so not damaging the old nipples is probably important. This makes me wonder if the appropriate spud wrench for them may be obtained somewhere.

It seems to me that a machinist could clean up the threads in the casting and turn a new nipple out of tube stock though tightening it may be a problem. Maybe a large cam type nipple extractor.

Matt