sleeve flue or not

steve novak

I switched from a oil fired burham pacemaker to a gas burham boiler. The oil was in the home for about 50 years. I have heard that when you go from oil to gas you should have the flue sleeved or it will start to fall apart. Is this true or should I be ok.

Weezbo

Steve .....

here is my best recommendation.fuel oil pipe is like the highest rating sort to speak then comes gas then comes 24 gauge then the condensate lines. now while it is permissable to use insulated , stainles steel for a variety of fuels if it isnt a realatively recent conversion any condensation within it will have caused detremental reactions within the flue of the pipe...how much? who knows... so,as i do not know the specifics of the new appliance and the manufacturers recommendations(and by the way ,the authority having Jurisdiction may impose some slightly more restrictive interpertation of the materials to be used._) ,changing the flue out at this time will insure you have done everything to provide a system that is safe and will have a bit more longevity.
now if you were just changing burners out,and a few months ago you had placed the appliance into operation with a fuel-oil burner i wouldnt suggest you go that route.
a few seasons ....well, then ,.unless i did the install and checked it for seasonal maint. i'd be shooting blind as to what is or isnt the best way to roll..it is a type of call that is best made by an installer on the site... who can check this or that and make fairly accurate determination based on what he "SEE's" an inspector might go along with the use of what you have in place based on the installers qualified perspective.however,if you are refering to triple wall installed in the late 60's..about the only useful part is the outside pipe as a seperation from another b -vent or l -vent ,when used as a "chase".
nat gas code allows the use of the product in many cases,although like i say it is a call best made by someone there who can determine stack temp currently and do some furter tests and cop a visual.

John Abbott

Liner....?

Steve

Is your chimney masonry with a fire clay liner?

John

Ken_8

The short answer.

If it has a clay liner in reasonably good shape, leave it alone.

Keep an eye on the "eggshell" carbon deposits that may have "lined" the oil-fired clay liner however.

Switching fuels allows the eggshell cabon depoit to flake and drop to the chimney base - possibly blocking the chimney - where the new boiler vent pipe enters the base.

Pull that penetration once a month for a while and make sure no blockage has occurred. The carbon flakes off in sheets occassionally and might impede natural draft posing a potential problem.

Other than that, enjoy your new system.

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Firedragon_4

Contact a member

of this group, we all can't be experts at everything and these guys and gals are the best, FACT!

http://www.csia.org/

Jack_23

NFPA54 requires

when changing from wood or oil to gas you must have the chimney cleaned. This is no joke. A lady in Ontatrio made this conversion and the condensate from the new gas appliance "washed" the soot deposits down and plugged the vent connector, which in turn allowed CO into the house and killed the poor woman.

If you will read the vent tables in 54 you will also see that a masonry chimney is absolutely unsuitable for venting gas appliances. Oil too for that matter! Therefore you must reline the chimney. Since 54 started down the "new" vent table path in 92 each new edition of the code has become more restrictive in the use of masonry chimneys. It is a simple matter of recognizing the physics of combustion and dewpoint and the chemical composition of the condensate.

For all applications of modern heating appliances, whether gas or oil, masonry chimneys are excellent architectural devices but poor venting systems.

John Abbott

Reline.......

Sounds ominous however it can be done simply and safely with a LISTED ss flexible liner kit.If this is indeed a masonry chimney.

John

Robert O'Connor_7

Liners?

It is always good practice to at least clean the chimney when switching fuel sources.(in many cases its code) Typically if the new apliance is condensing (as in a forced water boiler) and is vented through a cold chimney (meaning a chimney with three cold sides running up the outside of the house as opposed to a core chimney running up the center interior of the house) it should be lined. The corrosive nature of the condensate has the ability to destroy the masonary holding it all together and evenually it will either fail and collapes or make holes in it possibly allowing CO to enter the house. Liners are inexpensive although sometimes difficult to install. Make sure if you do line it, size it correctly..Robert O'Connor/NJ

Ken_8

Death does not abide by codes

NFPA does not mandate chimney cleanings and it does not preclude clay lined chimneys from being used.

It severely limits some BTU inputs from some particular vent and flueway dimensions, but is so poorly written as to mis-lead - rather than to instruct.

The absurdity of much of NFPA54 is the tables themselves. A certain appliance requires a certain vent size. When two or more appliances run into the same vent a second table is used. However when a water heater runs alone - the size of a combined capacity vent system is woefully oversized and violates the basis of the very tables it is supposed to refer to.

We have found approved aluminum liners to be so short lived that their use is discouraged in all instances. S.S. liners are so expensive, that their use is avoided at all costs.

Having an oil to gas conversion clay liner professionally cleaned before the gas appliance is used for a few weeks always leaves the carbon eggshell in tact because it adheres and is bonded to the clay liner by chemically bonded means. After the changed byproducts of gas combustion work on it a few weeks, it falls off because the chemistry of the gas byproducts break down the carbon and releases the eggshell from the interior flueways.

We always go back after an oil to gas conversion in a few days to monitor and/or remove the flakes that fall to the chimney base. To do otherwise is to err in an area that is life-threatening.

Knowing gas water heaters have successfully been used for 50+ years in some clay lined chimneys with no ill-effects is our assurance that the best material is already in the chimney. That being fire-clay liner. The hidden danger of aluminum and even some S.S. liners (remember, there are many forms of S.S. materials - many of which are no better than alumninum in some instances).

Readers of The Wall is international. There is extreme weather differences amongst those of us here. In NJ, we design for 10 above to zero degrees F. NFPA has little advice on huge differences between chimneys in Miami, FL - as opposed to those in Fargo, ND This is a major shortfall.

With reference to 60-85% efficient appliances (which includes most water heaters), our NJ codes (we have three to contend with regarding chimneys) suggest all outside (exposed) chimneys must be lined with something besides the fire-clay material. All interior chimneys MAY be lined with an additional liner or may re-use a fire-clay lined chimney in most instances.

No chimney can ever be unlined in any app. Although many oil companies claim any chimney that is known to be sound - even if lined with a second interior brick course and no fire-clay liner - is inherently re-usable because it is grandfathered in.

Condensing or near condensing appliances are a whole diferent nuance.

Thankfulluy, NFPA54 has never been adopted by NJ directly - only by reference.



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