radiant heat, sludge in system

Waylon Lowery

> Gentlemen; we have been called into a job which <BR>
> had a leaking expansion tank,upon arrival, we <BR>
> found that the tank had rotted through and <BR>
> sprayed over the boiler shorting out the controls <BR>
> and shutting downthe system. Upon investagation <BR>
> as to what caused the problem we found EXCESSIVE <BR>
> rust and mud inside the boiler, which is <BR>
> a peerless oil fired radiant system about 9 <BR>
> years old. My question is; what would cause <BR>
> this mud to accumulate inside the boiler all the <BR>
> way up to the coil plate area, and also cause <BR>
> the return and supply to be restricted with <BR>
> minerals as well? The radiant tubing appears to <BR>
> be of a black rubber substance. Also they have <BR>
> a well system.<BR>
> <BR>
> Please if you have any <BR>
> experience with this problem it would be of much <BR>
> help and appreiated emensly. please respond <BR>
> asap <BR>
> email;abraham@mylifeline.net <BR>
<BR>

richard_3

radiant,sludge in system

Gentlemen;
we have been called into a job which had a leaking expansion tank,upon arrival, we found that the tank had rotted through and sprayed over the boiler shorting out the controls and shutting downthe system.
Upon investagation as to what caused the problem we found
EXCESSIVE rust and mud inside the boiler, which is a
peerless oil fired radiant system about 9 years old.
My question is; what would cause this mud to accumulate
inside the boiler all the way up to the coil plate area,
and also cause the return and supply to be restricted
with minerals as well?
The radiant tubing appears to be of a black rubber
substance.
Also they have a well system.

Please if you have any experience with this problem it would be of much help and appreiated emensly.
please respond asap
email;abraham@mylifeline.net

Waylon Lowery

In short,

> Gentlemen; we have been called into a job which

> had a leaking expansion tank,upon arrival, we

> found that the tank had rotted through and

> sprayed over the boiler shorting out the controls

> and shutting downthe system. Upon investagation

> as to what caused the problem we found EXCESSIVE

> rust and mud inside the boiler, which is

> a peerless oil fired radiant system about 9

> years old. My question is; what would cause

> this mud to accumulate inside the boiler all the

> way up to the coil plate area, and also cause

> the return and supply to be restricted with

> minerals as well? The radiant tubing appears to

> be of a black rubber substance. Also they have

> a well system.

>

> Please if you have any

> experience with this problem it would be of much

> help and appreiated emensly. please respond

> asap

> email;abraham@mylifeline.net

Waylon Lowery

In short

I'd say oxygen and Cast Iron.

You stated that the radiant tubing is black rubber. I'd be willing to bet it didn't have an oxygen barrier. As a result, oxygen got into your system and oxidized every cast iron component in the system (pumps, boiler, and expansion tank).

When you replace the boiler make sure you use non ferrous components (bronze and stainless steel boilers and pumps). If you have already selected a ferrous boiler and pumps, you can use a heat exchanger to separate the systems and use a bronze or stainless pump on the radiant loop. If you do this, you will need an expansion tank on the radiant loop....make sure you use a domestic expansion tank...it will last longer...but don't forget to reduce the pressure in the tank to match your fill pressure.

Weezbo

Richard ...you deserve the credit...

The sad thing is not all wells are created equal....co back to the house take a look at the filter on the boiler feed water if none,look at the house filter....cha....Thats where the mud most likely came from... were a bit of a leak to occur the feed water dont savey anything it just keeps go in with the Flow often these items have a strainer...gate this and the back flow preventer and test the theory...how could boiler water be responsible for mud in it? ok well how does that account for mud in the back flow preventer?..i am sad to say that i have seen that. (munincipal supply ,owner latterals)different deal mud in the ditch not thouroughly flushed.

Mark Eatherton1

Whoaaa up there podnah...

Not all rubber hoses were created equally. The chances of finding bulk rubber hose in appropriate lengths to do RFH systems "off shelf" are slim to none. Try going to your local Checker Auto Parts store and ask for a 200 foot roll of 3/8" automotive grade radiator hose and see what they say...

I'm betting that the black hose says Heatway Onyx on it, and it DOES have an oxygen barrier.

I'd also guess that the system either has a leak under the floor, or the relief valve has been running water down the drain for quite some time due to the drain pipe of the relief valve terminating right above, or just inside the floor drain, where it could leak forever, undetected.

A continuous undetected leak, above or below grade is NOT a good thing to a ferrous system. The sedimentation is probably a byproduct of the minerals in the water.

The boiler will have to be replaced. Replace it with a cast iron boiler, because if there IS a leak below the floor, in order to find it you will need to fire the vessel, keep it hot and under pressure and keep all circulators off. You will then need to locate the leak using infrared and ultrasonic technology.

Let us know what it says on the side of the hose. I guess anything is possible...

ME

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Hey, there are alternatives!

Reading Dan Holohans book, you can use water with a mop on cement/tile floors while cats make excellent heat detectors in carpeted situations.

In his book on Radiant Heating, he describes how a housewife showed a radiant repair guy the easy way to find the pipes under her slab foundation by mopping it first (the floor dries quicker around the pipes). The cat idea came from a smarty-pants reply in the field (they'll preferentially bed down on the warmest spot in a room, indicating the leak below). Either option seems less expensive than an IR rig.

heatboy

First, you must know........

if there is a leak or not. Close the fill valve and monitor the system for a few days and see if the pressure goes away. Even a minute leak will show very quickly. Once you have established there is a leak, then the process of isolation is needed. Manifold by manifold, loop by loop. It will take some time, but you'll find what and where. From there, decide what to do. You may be lucky and just abandon the loop that leaks, clean up the system and put the system back inoperation. That's your best scenario if, indeed, the hose has a leak.

It could also be non-barrier hose, but I tend to agree with ME. The hose should have all of the info on it somewhere if there is enough exposed to read it.

hb

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"