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direct vent boilers

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Ken_8
Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
in THE MAIN WALL
I lay claim to being "Ken" and have since the day this site was created.

Please differentiate yourself in some manner.

It helps readers know who the author is.

Thanks.

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  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
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    direct vent boilers

    i have a customer who wants to install a direct vent oil boiler in cambridge ma i am concerned about noise and smell issues after all its the peoples republic and someone will complain has anyone in metro boston done a boiler this way i would like to visit a house in the city that has an oil fired direct vent boiler to listen to exhaust noise and smell

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  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
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    Boston :) I been to Boston :)

    I imagine there are King Snivilers there these days...however just remiind them that plenty of goods and services are moved by the trucking industry every day and your boiler doesnt burn what one of the trucks consumes in a day in a month and a half.
  • eric legacy
    eric legacy Member Posts: 16
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    What boiler are you considering?

    E.L.
  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
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    The only DV oil boiler I know of is...

    The Monitor FCX.

    It is my first and only choice for my new home in VT.

    90+ % AFUE.

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  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
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    direct vent boilers

    customer is thinking about viesmann,moniter or buderus my concern is oders and noise issues

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  • Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes
    Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes Member Posts: 1,243
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    I don't know

    about Buderus, but the Viessmann Vitodens, Monitor and Munckin direct vent boilers are all extremely quiet; it's hard to tell if they are on; you have to take the cover off and put your ear up to them.

    As far as odors of combustion gases, you won't smell them if you keep the minimum clearances from the flue to doors and windows.

    Now, I hope you're not talking about POWER VENTED boilers because these are very noisy; I try not to install them.

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  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
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    direct vent

    not talking abot power vented boilers i know how noisy they can be this boiler would be installed in an urban nieghborhood of upscale homes no reason to piss of the nieghbors

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  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
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    You said power vent...

    You did mention oil. Now we're onto PV?

    You cannot have an oil boiler that is not defacto PV byvirtue of the burner. Whether the air comes from a burner fan or vent fan - both have fans and would be considered "power vented" in any case.

    Are we all on the same page?

    Oil?

    Wall vented?

    Quiet?

    Condensing? (why not)?

    It's the Monitor FCX.

    Period.

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  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
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    Ed

    > You did mention oil. Now we're onto PV?

    >

    > You

    > cannot have an oil boiler that is not defacto PV

    > byvirtue of the burner. Whether the air comes

    > from a burner fan or vent fan - both have fans

    > and would be considered "power vented" in any

    > case.

    >

    > Are we all on the same

    > page?

    >

    > Oil?

    >

    > Wall

    > vented?

    >

    > Quiet?

    >

    > Condensing? (why

    > not)?

    >

    > It's the Monitor FCX.

    >

    > Period.

    >

    > _A

    > HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

    > 68&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

    > Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

    > "Find A Professional"_/A_



  • John@Reliable_9
    John@Reliable_9 Member Posts: 122
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    Ed, direct vent boiler

    Ed, the only one I have every used is an Burnham LE. I was surprised how little noise it made, (I guess because it's a balanced system) noise in is the only noise out. As far as odor,I found it less than a boiler w/ powervent. Just like a powervent you must vent it on a wall w/no openings at all costs if possible. I have one that is about 5 years in service w/no problems at all. Hope this helps! John@Reliable PS how you been?
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
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    Great Concern

    Initially, we were going to use gas to heat the house. Under such circumstances, side-venting is not an issue, the units can be quiet enough to please everyone. Mum has two LP-fired Buderus G124's in Maine, usually very quiet, despite a power-vent bringing air into the room that they draw their air from.

    Be that as it may, once I looked into the respective prices of fuel, I started to wonder whether it wouldn't make more sense to switch to oil. While side-venting vitolas, etc. is possible with the use of a powerventer, I'd prefer to stay away from noisy units. Hence, my search brought me to the Monitor FCX line, which seemed ideal for the job: great efficiency, sidewall venting is no problem, etc.

    However, Ed pointed out that the smell of oil-combustion near ground level may be objectionable to the neighbors, whose lot line is 11' feet away and whose houses are within 25' of ours. Thus, has anyone got real-life experience regarding the noise and smell of side-mounted FCX units?

    At the end of the day, it would be possible to vent through the main chimney. However, a powerventer would pretty much be required due to the long distance from the utility room to the main chimney. BTW: How do powerventers handle condensation?
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
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    direct vent

    its a matter of semantics wether to call it power vent or direct vent yes customer wants a condensing boiler question is how quiet and smelly it is

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  • Steve Eayrs
    Steve Eayrs Member Posts: 424
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    Oil-fired wall venting....

    My experience is any oil-fired wall vented, (either balanced flue, pressure fired, or other), is going to make a noticeable smell. I have seen where even when kept away from opening windows, non-windy side of house, not under decks, not too close to other buildings, on and on......there will occasionally still be objectional smells, due to changes in the atmosphere.
    I never promise it won't be a problem, in fact I promise it could be one. Have had to tear out a couple power venters, and retro in a stack, in places where it would have been a lot easier to do the stack originally.
    I guess the question is "how much smell is to much?"

    Steve
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
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    john is it possible to visit your cutomers house some evening and check for noise and smell ?? i have been very good john you still have your space at the supplyhouse?

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  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531
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    There are many many oil fired dv boilers available!!
  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
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    Well not really.

    DV and PV do NOT mean the same thing.

    Rheem had a DV water heater that had no fan. Worked beautifully on gravity air flow. Power vent implies a fan after the HX. and located in the exhaust - sucking the spent gasses through the HX.

    The we have FD (forced draft), etc.

    Hey it's Friday. Gimme a break.



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  • Jed_2
    Jed_2 Member Posts: 781
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    The other question

    is : Is low sulfur fuel available? Yes, with direct vent there is an odor NEAR the termination hood; but it difuses quickly. 5 to 10 feet away you can't smell it. But, low sulfur #2 will reduce this significantly. And, yes, you can hardly hear it standing next to it.

    Jed
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
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    The ONLY...

    direct vent/ balanced flue OIL boiler that I use is the Buderus 115 series....I prefer it w/ the carlin EZ set up although I am now told that the riello bf series is now straightened out. BOTH are very quiet...I have 5 working w/o problems/ when set up they don't have a smell problem. I am in seacoast NH...if you want a look see e-mail me...kpc
  • \"Maine\" doug
    \"Maine\" doug Member Posts: 39
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    The two that exhaust thru the wall in

    my building smell a bit when you are within a few feet of them on a non-windy day. After 3 winters, there is some soot deposits noticeable on the white trim above the vents. Some of this may be from the original Beckett burners that would run forabout 3 months and then the boilers would have to be cleaned. The Reillos' appear to be better, we ran one for18 months before service.
    There is not a lot of noise by the vents. More noise from the "rough" boiler heard in the vent pipe and boiler room. The other "smooth" boiler is much quieter.

    Here is the FieldControls vent hood after 3 winters. They are being replaced with real stainless made by a local shop.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    Will the real Ken please stand up?(nm)



    Mark H

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    I've got


    Buderus and Burnham DIRECT VENT set ups out there. Burnhams have Carlin, and Buderus have Riello.

    I have NEVER had a complaint about noise or odor.



    Mark H

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  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Burnham LEDV

    boilers perform remarkably well and are very quiet running. What is important in your neck of the woods is whether the brand you choose has been approved for installation in MA and Boston. Many have not applied for this approval. The other important issue is that some parts of Boston may not allow sidewall venting if you are in close proximity to a adjacent building. It is important to check with the local building officials first to prevent headaches later. Hope this helps.

    Glenn Stanton

    Burnham Hydronics
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531
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    Sorry, I haven't seen any other "Ken" since I've been here.

    Hope I didn't offend you by using my own name.
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531
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    I have Biasi and Pensotti dv oil fired boilers out there with no problems.
  • Leo
    Leo Member Posts: 770
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    Hey Maine Ken

    It is a sign the wall is growing with guys/gals with the same name. I am Leo who doesn't post often. After I started coming here another Leo arrived and he is LeoG.

    Welcome,
    Leo
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Ken , have you used alot of the FCX ?

    Are they reliable ? Easy to service ? Quiet while running ? And lastly , would you know of a supply house that stocks them on Long Island ? I know Sid Harvey used to stock them , but not anymore . My buddy is upgrading his boiler under his stairs in a Levitt and I want to experiment some . He has a small Phase 3 indirect in there already .

    The FCX is a condensing boiler and he has alot of baseboard looped around the home , so running the temps lower through the baseboard might improve efficiency and comfort ?
  • keith
    keith Member Posts: 224
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    direct vent

    How about the Crown Freeport Direct Vent? Just saw one at a trade show. It was firing a Carlin EZ and was unbelievable quite.
  • Tom M.
    Tom M. Member Posts: 237
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    Laars Max

    I did a few of these when they were made by Trianco. Very quiet with direct vent.

    Tom M.

    http://www.laars.com/oilfired.htm#D-MAX
  • John Abbott
    John Abbott Member Posts: 356
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    Lars Max

    I have found the Lars Max with Riello to be very quiet in the basement but very noisy on the outside.JMO

    John
  • John@Reliable_9
    John@Reliable_9 Member Posts: 122
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    Ed, I will check into that for you

  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
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    the concentric hoods....

    were /are not helpful at all....one hole was a nice idea but the croos contamination is a nightmare... I ONLY use the Aerocowl hood and the seperate intake 3-4 feet away....I know I sound like a stick in the mud when it comes to these boilers but I have had problems w/ some ways and I am tired of problems...kpc

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  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
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    Interesting

    When I co-developed a outdoor gas water heater, one of our design criteria was having the terminals as close as possible to each other. Since the water heater did not benefit from a powerventer, this was the only ways of ensuring that both terminals (intake and exhaust) would experience similar conditions.

    Subsequently, no pressure deltas could crop up to create bad combustion (or worse) flames shooting backwards out of the combustion chamber. As a result of this experience, I have always been a fan of concentric vents. Having said that, mine was horizontal, while most side-vents I've seen are are vertical. I wonder if any of the manufacturers of these vents had to show that their units were wind-proof designs (i.e. would not develop a delta-p across intake and exhuast as a result of a 40MPH wind from ANY direction).
  • doug_16
    doug_16 Member Posts: 62
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    Agreed Kevin. We are replacing them with

    the ones I designed and had fabricated with real stainless. Both boilers will exhaust out a divided pipe with the common intake about 4 feet away. Since the boilers are in a vault with 1.5 foot thick concrete walls and the building walls are a foot thick of brick, it is not easy changing vent methods. In the winter we could see the exhaust stream being sucked back into the FieldControls vents. Insulated Z-Flex is on the way to replace the single wall which should keep the vent a little hotter.
  • doug_16
    doug_16 Member Posts: 62
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    The pressure deltas for a closed

    vent system for a boiler may be less of an issue. By closed I mean no vent hood, no barametric. In the winter when you can see the exhaust, it was being sucked back into the intake. To test whether separated intake/exhaust would make a big difference, I changed the piping arrangement so that boiler 1 used the inlet on the concentric vent for boiler 2 and boiler 2 intake used the concentric vent intake for boiler 1. Since both boilers were not needed all the time, they, for most of their operating time, would be sucking in clean air. Well, the lead boiler went 18 months without coughing, a new record.

    So we have pulled the Z-flex for one of the boilers and ordered new double walled Z-flex (it's on the way) to repipe both boilers. I am going to try a common but split exhaust with a common intake about 4 feet away. See pics.

    Since the boiler room has 1.5 foot thick concrete walls and the building has 1 foot thick brick walls, it is not easy to just relocate and/or add vents. You have to call a company that core drills concrete, not cheap.

    Where I am in Maine, the lee side of the building is a moving target. During the day last week, we had 30 mph from the southeast changing to 50 mph gusts from the north west. Sheltered side? Pick one.
    The common intake will be partially sheltered by the wall of an add-on room that serves as a wind brake double entrance. In the winter snow would come in the door.
    So the grand experiment continues. It is too bad the original chimney is just a mite far from the boilers.
  • DaveGateway
    DaveGateway Member Posts: 568
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    What about Carlin

    I tought the EZ-1 was considered the quietest on most boilers.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
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    The testing took forever...

    Let me tell you, I spent a lot of time in the hot sun with a combustion gas analyzer, the wind machine, movable walls, and a couple of gas water heaters. Several heaters or their tubing caught fire during testing, some heaters had to be junked as a result.

    Something as trivial as hole spacing and positioning (to within a few fractions of an inch) in the terminals would make or break a non-powervented outdoor water heater that could be rotated 360deg in front of a 40+MPH wind machine and never go bad re: combustion.

    When I see kludged side-vent terminals I always wonder whether they get certified or not to be pressure-delta free. The pressure-venter only goes so far in being able to oppose wind gusts. Beyond that limit and you'll have bad combustion, or worse, flames shooting the wrong way.
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