munchkin parts problems

Steve Eayrs

I have been having problems getting needed Munchkin parts. Part of the problem is that no one seens to stock parts for these things in Alaska, and it seems to take forever to get them.
The most frustrating thing is these munchkins are showing up all over this area, being bought by home owners up the road somewhere. Some are older and just now getting installed. Someone else starts the install, then when they realize they are in deeper than they want to be, they call us. We show up, look at the serial numbers, and then inform the customer that in order to use the vision 1 controls, they need the 925 upgrade or some other upgrade.


Personally I am starting to hate these little boilers. I believe about every one of older ones around here have had to have the lousy blowers replaced. Bearing problems on most of them. Have medical clinic being heated by elecric space heaters at present, until the new blower shows up. And guess what.......the new blower, (which really should be some kind of recall), costs over $400. Talk about rewarding a company for bad design. Why put in good parts, if you can make more on replacement parts than the profit on the complete boiler?


I can't figure out why some of you guys brag these things up so much, or how you can dare to compare them to the Vitodens. No comparison.


Keep on seeing these messages comparing everything to Munchkin, when munchkin is really on the lower end of the scale, not the top. Of course they are cheaper. The installer has to also double as the R&D department.
Sorry Munchkin guys but I am not impressed.

Steve

Constantin

You raise a number of good points

Allow me some observations from the limited view I enjoy in the peanut gallery, thousands of miles away (and worse, as an engineer homeowner, EGAD!).

• Should it be difficult to get common items like blowers for a Munchkin?
  • No. Perhaps the HTP folks here can enlighten us to their blower supply problem, if there is one.
• Could the Munchkin have been designed better?
  • Yes, but that applies to all appliances. None are foolproof, and the installation is everything. Even Viessmann appliances can suffer the consequences of a hack job.
• Is Viessmann in your anecdotal experience a better unit?
  • Yes.
• Does this mean that we can extrapolate from your experience across the US?
  • No, because there are plenty of folks here who have had happy installs with either the vitodens or the Munchkin line.

Why are these people coming to you now, only after the initial installation was botched by someone else? Did you lose out in a bidding war or do your customers suffer from an awareness issue? (i.e. hire Steve to get it done right)

Furthermore, repair work can be very profitable. Typically, there isn't as much pricing pressure as when bids are required, right?

Though, as you expressed so eloquently, it can be very frustrating for consumer and installer alike. The Munchkin is built for one price-point, the Vitodens for another. Perhaps the hacks are less prevalent around Viessmann appliances, because folks who want the better boiler also elect to go with a competent installer. YMMV, of course.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

You know that

envelope that comes with the Munchkin? That is application for the 5 year parts and labor warranty; $200. The more I hear about bad blowers, the more I encourage homeowners to purchase the additional coverage.

The basic Munchkin warranty only cover parts, not labor.

Thanks for your input, Steve.

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BobbyG

Munchkin supplier

Sounds to me like you have an irresponsible supplier. As a wholesaler I stock Munchies along with the parts (including blowers). I only sell to licensed professionals. A quick glance at the old analog unit parts breakdown shows the same blower part # as the 925 unit.

Whoever is selling these units in the first place would be better off to stock parts to support the boiler and sell to licensed contractors.
JMHO

Steve Eayrs

Thanks for all your good responces.

Its good to hear that the same blower will replace and of the muchkin units, unless of course......its the same faulty blower. I would imagine that it is an upgrade.


Yes... all Appliances have their bugs. Its just that some get most of teh major issues out of the way, before putting it on the market, other count on us guys in the field to do it, and we (most of the time) pay for it.


As far as not getting the bids. Most of these places never ask for bids from anyone, and just assume the "back yard mechanic" will do just as good a job. We know they not only don't but in some cases can eat up their whole budget scratching, before calling us.


And yes, evidently we have very poor control over who buys these things. I bet just about anyone could walk up to the counter up the road and walk out with a munchkin. They also don't have one single part in stock, nor do I believe any place in this state has them in stock.

As far as the comment about "good money in repair parts". I don't know about you, but I prefer happy customers who don't have to have their "new" boiler repaired. Theirs plenty of repair around here without creating more.

One unanswered question......When you have such a common problem as defective blower motors, (on certain year of production), why is this not a recall item?? I don't call this good support of a product. Why should Munchkin be rewarded with the sale of a spendy blower, because of their lack of quality control on the production side??
Before you say that Veissmann (or Buderus) costs a lot more, you need to add in these issues, and the labor & material costs, when you could be on to another new install instead. You get what you pay for, and in this case you have to pay for some parts twice.


Steve

Constantin

Good Points!

Of course we'd all prefer installations with a minimum of issues. However, for all the talk about units that require no repairs, let's keep the perspective that w/o follow-on service the industry would experience a severe shakeout. I'll fathom a guess and proclaim boldly that 80% of the average labor spending in your industry is on repairs, the rest on new installs. Who knows if I'm right?

Furthermore, it is somewhat comic that a company that is trying to get traction would not tightly control its distribution... After all, there is nothing that travels faster than bad news!

Be that as it may, I can tell you from personal experience with another "premium" German company that paying top dollar does not entail a superior product, or service experience. After a minor car accident (total # of parts needed: 37) I had to wait four months to get my almost brand-new car repaired. Two parts were on backorder for 2.5 months each... while production is going on... and even though they have twice-weekly air-shipped parts deliveries to the US.

Tell me, how many of your customers would tolerate being out of heat for that long? And, it was a first for me to experience better service from a German brand in Germany than in the US! Hopefully, the parent company can figure out a way to improve their service performance to the point where car-owners like myself do not count their lucky stars for knowing someone in Germany who can ship them parts outside the regular dealer channel. (!!!)

So as far as I'm concerned, paying more does not entail getting better quality or better service from the manufacturer. It all depends on the quality of the organization. There are plenty of folks who are happy with their Munchkins, teething problems aside. As units become more sophisticated, it only follows that they'll have more defects... the trick is to improve the individual failure rates of the components used to the point where the compounded failure rate is still acceptable.

That's why Motorola developed the six sigma approach to the semi-conductor business. Otherwise, your chances of building a defect-free cell phone or computer would be hopeless.

Ted_5

Do you remember GlowCore

it's that all over again!

Ted

kf_2

forget GlowCore

...aren't these the people that brought us the Voyager?

There is always a difference between Cutting Edge & Leading Edge.


kf

Ted_5

Cutting Edge ?

You mean the Bleading edge!!!

Ted

John MacGregor_3

Munchkin/Glowcore

It sounds to me as though you should try to get the Munchkin dealership for your area in Alaska and make lemonade out of lemons.
Take advantage of your dealer's p-poor service and hook up with another supplier, maybe in Seattle. The Munchkin website should link you up with one.
The only blower problems we had were with the 199s and we were paid to replace all of those we had installed, and have not had a problem in that area since.
As far as parts go, we have always stocked emergency parts for whatever we are selling; Munchkin, Hydropulse, Glowcore, Amana HTMs, Bryant, GE heat pumps, Pennco(Dunkirk,Bryant,Sears, and whoever else brands them).
Yes,even Glowcore, mainly because we installed one in our shop when we built it 15 years ago,(complete with polybutylene pipe). It came from a disgruntled contractor for whom we installed a new Weil-McLain boiler and being a good Scotsman I hated to throw it out. Works fine.
We have a pretty good stock of obsolete parts but they are all paid for, several times over, and we are still selling them.
As far as the Munchkin goes, I feel we are through the teething stage. At least I hope so, I just put one in my new home, with Roth insulated panels on the first floor, baseboard upstairs in the guest rooms and standing radiation in the basement (beautiful and comfortable), just like the good old days.
As far as the German manufacturers go, they seem to have the attitude that they can do no wrong, their equipment fails or they change product midway thru a job and you end buying mismatched parts, or the prt goes bad 12 months and a day and your warrnty is no good.
I'll stay with American made as long as I can.

Dave Yates (PAH)

I had a GlowCore - I have a Munchkin

and I now have a Burnham Revolution AND a Munchkin. The Munchkin kicked Old Man Winter in the seat of his pants this past winter, while the Revolution sat idle.

Not one single problem occured with my Munch.

In the three years I had a GlowCore, I was without heat and hot water 28 times. Then the HX failed & I could not get any warranty assistance - a true nightmare. But every dark cloud has a silver lining & that situation led me to e-mail Dan & one of the best friendships I've ever developed evolved. So, in many ways, I owe GlowCore a big thanks.

On the other hand, I have found Heat Transfer Products to be extremely responsive to questions and quick with parts as needed (I too had one of the 199 blower problems in a customer's home). My supplier opened up to give me a new blower assembly on a bitter cold Sunday night.

Same goes for Burnham. I had two problems with my Rev: a dumb-smart valve failure and a bad circuit board - both of which Burnham took care of without hesitation. Burnham has consistantly given great service.

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Steve Eayrs

Thanks for the response

I don't know about going to Seattle to get a Munchkin.....because I don't care if I ver see another Munchkin.
As far as the comments about German boilers.... I can get any aprt I need for veissman, overnight, if I don't have it already. Besides this thread is about the poor responce from Munchkin reps.. If it was about a Vitodens, I would have had no reason write it.

Steve

Waylon Lowery

Sorrry to hear that

your Munchkin Rep isn't very good.

Our rep here in Northern Nevada is great. He is always quick to respond and eager to help out. We have had him on-site to help commission several Munchkin's, and we have had him help us troubleshoot problems a couple of times. He always comes loaded and ready to work....he carry's a full stock of parts in the back of his truck and I think he even carries around a boiler or two. On the one Munchkin no heat call that we have had, I called the rep on the phone and he was on the job within a half hour and had the problem fixed within an hour.

We have several good boiler reps here in the area.... Lochinvar, Viessmann, and Laars to name a few....but I'd have to say that our Munchkin Rep is probably the best.

Nron_2

Boiler-Rep

Seen my first munchskin boiler today do they all come in a plastic box like this one , rated at 140 btus , is there a model that requires the upgrade mentioned earlier this packedge was sold to the home owner directly with the house he had delivered and set on a foundation he has already installed the pipe himself and wants the boiler installed by someone else , he mentioned that the boiler can freeze up in cold conditions and wants us to cut a hole in the air intake side since this is the recomendation from the home seller, this is not allowed am i right I have no information on the product yet Nron