Viessmann Option

Dave L_4

My company has been contracted to install an above the floor installation of radiant heat in HUD project consisting of 26 apartments for the elderly. The issue is the engineer of record designed a system using conventional atmospheric boilers with atmospheric water heaters & insulated chimney's, fresh air for boiler rm, injection pumping, seperate weather responsive control. I am able to install for less money a system with a condensing boiler with integrated control & indirect water heater, & eliminate the need for chimney, combustion air, aftermarket controls.

I would like everyone to weigh in on what condensing boiler they would reccomend & why. The person in charge of the housing authority has said they won't except a Viessmann option.

Thanks for your help

Dave L.

Paul Pollets

Too bad....

the housing authority doesn't get it. I'd be using the Vitodens boilers staged with the cascade control, and several indirects for the DHW load. Maybe you can show the engineer the "Viessmann Fuel Savings" post on this site and the spreadsheet that shows performance. Of course there are many types of equipment that will "do the job" and certainly at lower cost. Performance, reliability, and ease of maintainence will not be the same. Just my opinion.

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Waylon Lowery

How about...

the Weil McLain Ultra. We have installed Ultras in similar commercial applications. The Ultra has built in controls for outdoor reset and domestic hot water control. Weil McLain is an american made boiler with readily accessible american made parts.

If you are scared of the cast aluminum in the Ultra, you could use the Munchkin with Vision controls. Both are pretty good boilers.

I can understand the reservations that someone would have for installing any of the new condensing boilers. They are relatively new and they haven't been tested over the long haul. Most Commercial customers are looking for something that will be around forever, so when you suggest a small condensing boiler that looks like an ice chest they are going to balk. When selling condensing boilers you have to sell the improved efficiency and the payback. If it is an existing building, get their old gas bill and show them how much they could save just in boiler efficiency alone. If it is a new building try doing a degree day calculation for the condensing boiler versus the atmospheric.

Another avenue to explore might be the efficiency requirements of the HUD organization running the job. I have recently run into several jobs where the Nevada Housing Division required boiler efficiencies of 85% or higher.

Robert O'Connor_3

Some gov. agencies

are also pushing the made in USofA requirements.

Dave L_4

Viessmann Options

I was wondering who knows what factory in the us makes the Weil Mclain Ultra?

Waylon Lowery

That is a good point...

I believe the controls are made by Honeywell...so that probably comes from Japan or China? Maybe the heat exchanger is made in the US? The Gas Valve is made by...can't remember?

But then have you ever dissected a Viessmann....I haven't, but I would imagine that there must be a few non-German Components.

Nron

options

what about the buderus the thermostream will allow very low return water temp and is made verry well or even the 300 series have 2 stage system and are well insolated if they really want to stay with cast iron
check out there web site

Paul Pollets

American parts on Viessmann

Viessmann makes all of their components except for the Honeywell gas valve or ignitor assembly.

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John Jr

Parts

You know I hear everybody say that getting parts for Viessmann is going to be difficult or impossible. First on all the Viessmann boilers I have installed I haven’t needed to replace any parts. Second if I do they have a warehouse full of parts. All I need to do is call my supply house tell them what I need and go to the Viessmann warehouse and pick it up.(Warwick, RI)
Now as far as installing a gas boiler like Paul stated the Vitoden is the only way to go. I have a customer that has a 20 x 40 greenhouse, double layer of plastic with air blowing in between and a concrete slab with radiant for heat and a Vitoden 200 15-60 heating it . He also has a 35 x 45 building with radiant with Teledyne Laars low mass boiler. Both run on propane. The greenhouse uses less fuel than the garage. I told him no way!! He showed me the slips to prove it. He keeps them separated for billing purposes. Now we just added a room temperature sensor on the Vitoden and he told me the other day that it is performing even better. I am amazed with this boiler. Now he wants to know about adding more greenhouses and adding the garage with a Vitoden in it.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Am fairly certain I recall reading that the HX of the Ultra comes from Europe--France I think. Believe the HX of the Munchkin comes from France as well.

Monitor MZ is another choice, but again little inside of it comes from the U.S. Price is rather high, but it's a relatively "simple" appliance with a very good track record for reliability AND efficiency.

R. Kalia

> the Weil McLain Ultra. We have installed Ultras

> in similar commercial applications. The Ultra

> has built in controls for outdoor reset and

> domestic hot water control. Weil McLain is an

> american made boiler with readily accessible

> american made parts.

>

> If you are scared of

> the cast aluminum in the Ultra, you could use the

> Munchkin with Vision controls. Both are pretty

> good boilers.

>

> I can understand the

> reservations that someone would have for

> installing any of the new condensing boilers.

> They are relatively new and they haven't been

> tested over the long haul. Most Commercial

> customers are looking for something that will be

> around forever, so when you suggest a small

> condensing boiler that looks like an ice chest

> they are going to balk. When selling condensing

> boilers you have to sell the improved efficiency

> and the payback. If it is an existing building,

> get their old gas bill and show them how much

> they could save just in boiler efficiency alone.

> If it is a new building try doing a degree day

> calculation for the condensing boiler versus the

> atmospheric.

>

> Another avenue to explore might

> be the efficiency requirements of the HUD

> organization running the job. I have recently

> run into several jobs where the Nevada Housing

> Division required boiler efficiencies of 85% or

> higher.

Dave L_4

Viessmann option

I'm looking for someone to sound in on the Opus or the Munchkin. Something that might be comparable to Vitodens with variable speed pumping & weather responsive control. I'd like to skip the injection set up if possible.

Thanks

Dave

S Ebels

You might as well

Look for the proverbial needle in the haystack. It would be easier to find the needle than a boiler that matches the Vitodens. That's not my humble opinion, that's a fact!