New Computer System Question

ScottMP

I have come to believe that the Wall is the centere of all Knowledge on the eastern seaboard. With that in mind, I am going to buy a new computer for my office. I have two PC's and a laptop that are all networked. The main pc now will replace the older unit.

I would like opinions on what I am being told to get. My computer guy has made the following recomendation....

Dell , Intel pentium 4, 3.00 GHZ, 512 K / 800 MHZ, 512 MB, and 80 GB hard drive.

As you can tell I have NO idea what this all means :).

Thanks

Scott




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Uni R

PCs

There are no bad PCs... It's all in the installation. LOL


He's giving you sage advice. Dell's are extremely solid machines and you are getting a fast machine. Get a big enough monitor (19") and make sure the mouse is optical...

Dave_22

sounds good

^^^Dell , Intel pentium 4, 3.00 GHZ, 512 K / 800 MHZ, 512 MB, and 80 GB hard drive.

I like Dell alot:

Pentium 4 running at 3GHz (processor speed) is top of the line speed.

512 L2 Cache (1 part of computer memory)-512 is very good.

800 MHz Front side bus- bus is what the info. is traveling on inside computer. 800 is very good.

512 MB Ram (memory) is good, you could get more, but probably don't even need too.

80 GB hard drive is big enough to store a lot of stuff.

You are getting a top of the line machine, totally up to date with todays standards!!!!!!

Reynz_2

Computer

Excellent choice. Dell, Gateway, HP are all "almost" the same. Each of their customer base is very passionate about their computers. The US Government is currently loaded with Dells. But honestly, once you sit down in front of it, you won't be able to tell which of those components are doing what and if it is better than the next. Dell, great machine. Don't dwell on it, it will drive you crazy. Just get it! The rule of them, from one who has been buying computers since 1991 is, buy as much computer as you can afford. Let the dollar amount to be your limiting factor.

Mark J Strawcutter

nice system

Dell makes good machines and they are what I recommend and purchase myself.

I agree with the recommendation on optical mice.

There tends to be a "sweet spot" in the price/value curve as it relates to CPU speed. 3Ghz is probably above that spot. You probably wouldn't notice 2.6 or 2.8 and the price savings would help you get that nifty 19in flat-panel LCD monitor :-)

Mark

Earthfire

new technology

Get all the memory that you can cram in the box. Also, there is supposedly a newer faster internal board coming out this summer from Intel that is supposed to make the top of the line systems obsolete. If you can wait a little you can get the newest when it comes out orsave a lot of money on the system as speced now. By the way, have a Dell, and knock on the wooden block on my shoulders, the 3 year sevice upgrade agreement expired a year ago & I still haven't needed it. The only frustrating thing was a couple of months after I bought mine, the Dell flier came in the mail & the system that I bought was 1/2 price cause the P4 chip was available. PC's the ultimate example of planned obsolescense.

Weezbo

c oo l ...

few years a go i plinked ou some change for a similar devise:) 60 gig blah blah blah it has been interesting ...tryed my hand at paint made a2 meg eyeball for the screen saver:) managed to send 34 megs of programms outa my computer on my first email attachmen not that it was my plan to lose 34 megs:) and Hey that didnt even faze the thing:))) you may be even luckier than i ...most of my computer literate gamer apprentises seem to think it was impossible to send out that much info on an e-mail ...i drowned a 650 skijet one summer the first time abord:)howda heck ? didnt realise it wasnt a submarine...:( oh and normal people let go of the gas. computers are kinda like that have fun

prm_6

New PC

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. The guys are right, get the best monitor you can, optical mice rule, and you can't have enough RAM or hard drive space.

Constantin

Dell can be quite competitive

Dell , Intel pentium 4, 3.00 GHZ, 512 K / 800 MHZ, 512 MB, and 80 GB hard drive.

The above system will probably serve you well. I would increase the RAM allocation to 1GB to handle that bloatware called Windows XP I expect the machine to ship with. Also, I'd go with a larger hard drive. 80 GB in a desktop is pretty much the lower end. HD's are available all the way up to 400GB in a 3.5" form factor, but I'd stick to a cost-effective 200GB drive.

Considering the types of programs you're likely to run, I'll keep my preference for Apple systems to myself. The proper tool for each job and all that.

You should see how happy my dad is with his Powerbook... no more virii, runs Reunion great, excellent at editing movies, photos, etc. and whatever leftover windows applications he still needs run fine in VirtualPC. Best of all, the laptop has a Bluetooth optical mouse, WiFi connectivity, even burns DVDs with no external doo-dads required. He's happy, so I'm happy.

Nick_11

Price memory and peripherals from 3rd parties

You might ask your computer guy about price comparison from Viking, kingston, and many 3rd parties on the internet on extra memory that is over and above any free deals from Dell. Dell usually has deals structured so you can pick from "free" extra memory or free CD and/or DVD burner, printer, etc. Dell is also pricey on other peripherals and they charge sales tax on everything. Other places like CDW.com have all the great peripherals and usually better pricing than Dell with no state sales tax. (find out shipping charges b4 you buy)

I've bought alot of memory from the internet. It's generic,and they all know Dell's product line back and forth. but you need to talk to the tech sales on the site b4 you buy. Prices for same memory sticks usually WAY lower than Dell's non-deal pricing.

If your not confortable putting it in, have your kid do it. It will take them about 5 min.

BTW Dell machines are great. You got a nice configuration.
I Bought a Dell Precision w/flat screen for my kid in college 2 yrs ago. Built it and bought it on Dell.com and had it direct shipped to his dorm at school in Philadelphia.

Put a CD burner in it and he had guys in his room all the time.. Glad I didn't put a DVD burner in it or he probably wouldn't have studied at all.

Hope that helps.

Nick

Mark J Strawcutter

forgot about software

If you're ordering it with XP, be sure to get XP-pro, not the "home edition"

Mark

John Conway

Computer purchase

Dell is a solid machine. I've been dealing with machines since 1978 (pre-PC). Certainly since the late '80's, Dell always makes the short list. Gateway is a good machine, although I'd rank it lower than Dell, at least over the long haul.

Before selecting a machine, consider what you expect to do with it. For general office use (word processing, spreadsheets, Quickbooks) you don't need the top end in a manufacturer's product line. The price/performance point to look at usually is a few notches down. (Of course, there are apps out there that use aall the iron you can throw at them.)

Assuming general use, your computer guy's recommendation is ok. I would spend more money on memory (1 GB). I strongly recommend XP Pro, not XP Home. LCD monitors take up less room. Motion & color accuracy are probably acceptable for most people.

Spend money on & be consistent with some sort of backup solution (tape, cdr, cdrw, whatever. Spend money & stay updated with antivirus & firewall protection. This is, after all, your business. Take your backups offsite.

No offense to others, but I'd not recommend buying the top end, unless you'll immediately use that power. Anything you buy will be supplanted by something newer & greater soon. Buy what you need & then ignore the advertising over the next few months, you'll sleep easier!

Nick_11

Apple's way better

Agreed. Mac's are what you get when you combine creativity, passion and elegant interface with technology. Failing that you get a PC.

Kind of like European Hydronics products compared to U.S.

But don't say it too loud.

Uni R

Generic memory?

Memory is generic until you have problems. Bad RAM can cause the hardest to trace of all computer problems. Mismatched RAM can do the same thing even though both chips test correctly. Sometimes they'll be as obvious as a machine that continuously reboots but other times it might take a year to figure out that those intermittant CPU freezes were actually a result of one bad memory module. Unless you are really tight, buy the memory from the supplier that will be warranteeing your product. Dell has excellent service!!!


In terms of the CPU, unless you are high end gaming or using AutoCad extensively, you will probably never notice the difference in any of the P4 chips. A 3.0Ghz CPU is fine but so are the 2.8 or 2.6GHz chips.

heatboy

Is that the one..........

you are buying for me? ;-)

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Am sort of echoing what others have said in various posts...

The difference in price between the fastest, "best" consumer CPU and that of just 6 months ago generally quite substantial. Sophisticated computer games are the most "speed hungry" general software. Unless you're a hard-core gamer you are EXTREMELY unlikely to ever notice performance differences during the lifetime of the computer.

You can use any money "saved" to enhance your peripherals. As said, if you are getting a new monitor, buy the biggest and clearest you can possibly afford. A good CRT monitor will outlast MANY computers. Flat screens are nice and sexy, but they won't last as long as a CRT and their resolution is a bit limited (compared to CRTs) unless you spend really big bucks.

Optical pointing devices are a great step forward--they don't cost much anymore either. Personally I prefer an optical track ball, but that puts me in the minority.

If you're needing any new software, buy it now! Software is the main reason that computers become obsolete and if you wait too long (and the time can be surprisingly short) you'll find that you have to get a new computer just to run the software...

Just a few years ago 512 meg of memory was considered almost "excessive". Now it has become nearly the "norm." While you can save some $$$ by purchasing a computer with a small amount of manufacturer-supplied memory and loading it with "generic" memory there can be strange problems.

ScottMP

WOW

Once again the wall is the place ...

Thanks to all who answered I really appreciate it.

Scott

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J.C.A._3

O.K., this may sound a bit familiar but....

Much like a heating system.... go with what THE GUY WHO'S GONNA SERVICE IT HAS TO SAY. Don't we ALL give that advice?

You know that the answer lies with the "comfort level" of his expertise. Kind of like US when installing a new heating system. Bottom line. Chris

P.S. I know that I'm gonna have to deal with as many malfunctions as you are.You trusted your guy to get you what you have now,and without too many troubles, it has served you well.

John@Reliable_9

Scott, I just upgraded myself .......

and after checking them all went w/ Gateway due to support.
Dell has had allot of problems w/ support on pc's. Thier servers and high end stuff is different part of company so support for them is better.If you have a Costco warehouse store near you they carry a Gateway Pentium4 3.06GHz w/ 533 FSB (Hyper Threading) 512MB 333MHz DDR RAM 250GB Hard Drive W/ DVD ROM and DVD-R/CDRW Combo and 18" LCD + Video/sound cards and Boston Acoustics speakers w/ sub + all the other bells for under $1700 The above means it's more than you or I would ever need lol hope this helps John@Reliable

Unknown

I read in the newspaper

a few days ago that Gateway is closing all of it's retail stores and laying off 2500 workers . I agree with you John about customer support - very critical for a computer manufacturer . With the closings at Gateway , the support might get stretched thin . I was looking at a Gateway computer too , loaded with high end options at a great price .

John@Reliable_9

Maybe, that's why they are in Costco?

Unknown

The article stated

that Gateway is looking for other ways for customers to buy their products . Maybe they are closing just the Gateway named stores ? Heres the link , and theres a few more articles if you search -

http://www.newsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bzgate023735948apr02,0,7781643.story

Reynz_2

Stop the Madness

Everyone (at least the younger generation) is used to buying things online and not from a store. When I say younger, probably under 45. I suppose Gateway was trying to get a bigger piece of the pie by letting those, who were so inclined, to go to a store, pick out a computer, touch a customer service technician and feel good about the purchase. My father, for one, would not buy anything unless he could buy it at a store. I suppose it was the notion that if a problem arose, he could take it back to the store. Gateway realized they made a big mistake with these country stores..... #1 Too much overhead. When they first opened, people went to the store, looked at the computers, then bought them on line, no sales tax. Then Gateway had to start collecting sales taxes because the Gateway stores were in the various states. FOR THE MOST PART, if you did not buy the computer from a certain state, and it was shipped from another, you were not required to pay sales tax.

As far as what type, size, strength, flavor, color, processor...... You decide how much money you want to spend, buy as much computer as you can. For a bunch of HVAC professionals, you guys are really getting carried away with this computer thing. But is obviously still very interesting for me to watch, and why the heck am I on the wall anyway at 1030 pm, reading opinions about buying computers with a bunch of HVAC technicians? I feel I can get into the middle of this one because it is about computers, and I’m still learning the boiler stuff. Ok, guys, how about some discussion on thermo anticipators or something?????? All in fun, don’t get mad…..

Harold

A bit different view

The "name" brands tend to do things so standard parts do not work in their machines. I suggest you talk to a couple of local "white box" providers. Your computer guy should know of some. They build system out of standard parts.

I suggest and AMD processor based machine. Ignore Durons. Buy something one or two speed grades down from the current max. It is more cost effective. The white box guy can provide guidance.

I suggest a mother board based on the NVIDIA Nforce 2 chip set. Get the one with the built in graphics. Most board manufacturers have a model or two based on this chip set. It has everything you need without buying any other plug in boards. I have had success with Epox boards.

Get a case with enough space for the devices you need, enough power, and noise levels you are happy with. Devices you need include a 3.5" floppy (you do not need it often, but when you need one you need one), CD RW drive, DVD+-RW (the +- is a dual format version - newer dual layer drives will supplant these in 4-6 months - if you don't need one now; wait). Space for a removable hard disk (see backup below).

Pointing device is personal. Mouse should be optical. USB keyboards and mice can be problems. I prefer trackballs. Go to a computer or office store and fondle some devices. Trackballs require almost no space to use.

RAM - 512 M is OK. 1 GB better. It is cheap. If you are going to scan large images get 1GB. NForce uses dual RAM channels so buy 2 identical DIMMs (memory cards) that add up to what you want.

80 GB drives are enough for most uses. Since this is a business machine you probably are not going to collect music and videos. If you scan/edit photos you may need more. Updating is easy if you bought a case with space for at least 3 internal 3.5" drives. I am not sure were the sweet spot is at the moment but anywhere between 50 and 200 GB is fairly inexpensive.

Backup - ya gotta have it. My preferred approach (after many years of screwing with many variants of tape drives) - put in a second hard disk. You can get a simple plug in system that fits in a 5 1/4" drive slot and lets you put the backup in a safe place. Disks are cheaper and much faster than tape systems. To do it right for business security, get 2 backup drives. Each one big enough to backup your entire other disk system. 2X or more is better then you can keep multiple generations on a drive. Cycle a drive between the business and some other physical location (e.g., home). One at work, one at home, and exchange them for alternate backups. Get some backup software. Simple and inexpensive is Norton Ghost. It comes with Systems Works PRO. Other backup software can provide more sophisticated bckup tracking and management. Use DVD to make archives of important files that you want to get off the hard disks.

Monitor - if you are going to do CAD get 21". If you are going to do other things, get 21". CRTs still provide the best displays. The monitor is like the speakers on a audio system. It is the single most visable result from spending more money. Get a good one. Sony and some Hitachis are good. Get some help in understanding what matters and if you can see some under identical conditions you should.

Get a hardware firewall if you are connected to the internet. Add a software firewall as well (ZoneAlarm is free). Good antivirus (Norton). Anti-spyware applications. Have someone that knows what they are doing set up your firewalls, network configurations, individual machine rights and configurations. Security is a big deal and not simple.

Get XP Pro not home.

jerry scharf

where's your computer load calculation? (long)

How is it that we preach that you need to understand the building before you select the heating system, but computers are different? Maybe it's because they are cheaper and have a much shorter life.

So Scott, what do you plan to do with said computer? What are your uptime and support expectations? Are you the system administrator or will that be someone else? Does you entire office depend on this computer or just one person? I'm assuming this is a screen for someone to work at rather than a server in the corner.

My Windoze machine is a 933 MHz P3 Dell with 768MB ram and a 40GB hard drive running win2K. I have an upgraded video card and a DVD writer and other than that it's stock. My three year warranty has run out, so it's expendable in my way of handling computers (I have lots.) It runs most of the simple hydronics programs with no effort, it runs quickbooks with no effort, it runs MS and adobe apps with no effort. I wouldn't try running any FEA programs on it. Most of my graphics intensive work is done on a faster machine with a better video card.

I really like LCDs better than monitors, and it's the next computer thing for me to buy. They are much sharper and from my experience easier on my aging eyes.

As for manufacturer, it all about support. For me, I recommend everyone without a major level of personal computer experience buy from a big name. The cost difference is small and that there's some chance of getting support is important.

The support may not be great, but it's better than you'll get from a white box company. The Dell next day on site business hardware support is what I would recommend for a business critical machine. I'm sure than similar things are available from HP, IBM and the like, I've just used Dell for these machines.

Depending on what you're doing, I could recommend anything from a 2400+ Athlon to a 3GHz P4 to a killer Opteron system (15-20 years ago I would have called it a supercomputer.) Memory is a function of the type and number of applications you plan to run simultaneously. Nothing under 512MB these days, but could be up to several GB. Disk is cheap, no reason to go for less than 80-100MB, but make sure it's a 7200RPM drive (slow is bad.) I don't like shared memory for the video, I always want an AGP video card (the memory is working hard enough feeding the processor, no need to use it to feed the video as well.)

Lastly, don't get hooked on the speed. Speed is mostly for engineers, gamers and hackers (in the old sense.)

The dell system that was suggested is overkill for most any application you are probably using, but overkill doesn't cost much in computers. I expect computers to have a 4 year life, and ride the curve. It also gives me a change once every 4 years to clean up allthe cruft that has developed.

good luck, jerry

scrook_2

Go Dell...

Never met a Dell I didnt like! Solid machines.

Only thought I'd offer is maybe go a little slower on the processor say 2.6 GHz or whatever vs 3.0 GHz (if it makes any real differance in the price) and spend the money on more memory (RAM), say 1GB vs half (512MB).

If XP, absolutely XP Pro, otherwise (and perhaps the best of them all, but it's close, Windows 2000 Pro, but they don't offer it on all their lines), Optical Logitech mice beat any MS or brand X mouse optical or regular, and get a good (small or large, CRT or LCD) monitor, life is too short to look at a cheap monitor.

ScottMP

White box's

I have gone the white box way before. I liked the local company getting work, I liked the guy. Service was, I unplugged it and took dwon that day. Problem was nobody was Really Sure what the problem was. I guess like heating, anybody can plug the stuff together, but no everybody understands how it works.

With three machines it dos'nt bother me so much that one will away for a few days, as long as its done right.

Can't help that Gateway and Apple both could'nt make the store thing work.

Scott

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