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GE replacement

40 GE replacements a year . We're close to that mark already , after 3 months . This one was for a new homeowner who didn't like the noise level of the old one .

Comments

  • New boiler

    Weil Gold 3L once again . The homeowner was amazed at how much quieter it ran . The hardest part of the job is getting the cover back on .
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Its the history of heating

    Ron thats not asbestos is it ??

    Scott

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  • Nope

    it's Sticktite . Looks like dried out oatmeal . We very rarely see asbestos on the boilers , although they were insulated later on in the heyday of manufacture .
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Hey Ron,

    Bet they wouldn't complain about the noise from the original burner! Quiet was about the only good thing about them. I swear, every time the G.E. burner lit, someone at M.I.T. was giggling like a little girl.

    For those of you lucky enough to never have seen one,it looked like something Rube Goldberg dreamed about, and the writers of the old "Roadrunner" cartoons looked at for the coyotes whacky ideas. Chris
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,337
    I had a GE

    Chris, and it was quiet, reliable, economical and would still be running if my tech hadn't retired and the parts became as rare as a Red Sox world series win.

    But then, if my pipes hadn't let go under the slab I'd still have radiant. :-((
  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    GE

    Ron, What town has all those GEs. The newest one you can find any where is probably over 50 years old. We had a bunch of the old LA20 and 30s at one time, most were from the 1930s and 40s. Almost are gone now but there are at least 2 left the I know of. Combustion efficiencies were in the high 80s back then with clean smoke and very quiet operation. No, no one can say the GEs weren't quiet and efficient. Just different. PS. I think that insulation is asbestos.
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531


    How will you service the new boiler? It looks near impossible to get to the top and brush it. It also looks like you could never open the swing door to get to the chamber.
  • It's much easier

    to service the new one compared to the old GE . The top comes off and you can get to the chimney from there . Obviously the burner has to be pulled and the swing door removed to get to the chamber .

    Hey , this is the only option short of relocating the boiler . No other cast iron with a coil will fit . With around 10,000 homes like this , we would love to move em out of there , but the cost is prohibitive to some .
  • It's Levittown

    on Long Island . We do come across some that are quiet , but most are louder than the replacement boiler .

    The insulation most definitely was not asbestos . I've replaced over 100 of these and also took a week long asbestos abatement course . We do see some with asbestos , but by and large it's sticktite . Hell , some of the servicemen who spread the sticktite on in the 60s are still with the company .
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531


    Good job in finding a fit. I agree that you do what you have to sometimes!!!! We would all like to have the perfect mech room to work in. Alas, only in our dreams!
  • Only in an old book

    a serviceman had did I see the original GE . Rube Goldberg would be the name I give to it also . I'm not sure how quickly they were replaced , but we always see a Beckett in them now .

    They were something in there day . Sometimes we install baseboard to the old GEs and it takes a looooong time for them to reheat - 20 minutes to 1/2 hour to get to 180 . Compare it to 5 minutes for the Weil .
  • Talking to servicemen

    they rarely have to vacuum out the boiler , and when they do they can snorkel the hose through the sight door to get the majority of accumulation .

    The thing they love the most is that they can pop the top , brush the sections , and clean the chimney base .

    I gotta take a pic of the special made old fluepipe on the next GE . They were not thinking of service when they made that setup ! Thanks Ken .
  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531


    I too love the open top of the Gold series. And yes, very rarely do I have to open the chamber. Do you really have 10,000 of these old boilers out there? I have never seen one. Is it a NY thing?
  • There might be more

    I don't know the exact number , but theres probably well over 20,000 Levitt homes in the area . Some have the boiler under the stairs , some have it sitting in the kitchen . But I believe the most common is the boiler off the floor .

    Theres also a Levittown in Pennsylvania . My buddy Ken was through there a few years back and said it was just like home ( we both live in Levittown NY ) . I think the houses are the same .
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    We did ,

    A pile of retro-fits with Carlin 100CRD burners firing down until Beckett made the challenge. (have I been doing this too long?) For a while , it was the only choice we had, and they WERE loud!The old Thermal oil delay valves were the only choices we had, and they failed at a "less than acceptable rate" when being covered by the top cover in place. First generation cad cell relays were also susseptible to "heat related"failures at discouraging rates. We found that leaving the top off, extended the life of both, VERY much.

    One thing to remember in the retrofit process, is that G.E. boilers were vented from the bottom rear.They entered the flue at a straight shot, down low.(usually with barometric dampers mounted in the chimney!(Sacrilidge according to the new codes!) The burner was on the top, and consequently, when replacing them, you have to vent higher, and from the "center flue" position on the W/M. If there was enough room, you could scrub another point or 2 % effiency from a rear flue install, but these puppies have to fit in the original provided space as a rule.

    With what, and how you accomplish these installs is nothing less than miraculous. Even the ones I replaced in the day, had alot more room than your dealing with. Using old chimneys and basement space, gave a bit more leeway than a closet under a staircase. I'll say it again....Ron Jr., YOU are an ARTISTE! I can mean that having worked on these beasts. Again, Rube Goldberg would have loved this lesson in "electro-mechanical switchery" that the original burners performed to accomplish something that has come so far , yet been made SO much easier. BTW, I'm STILL gonna stand by my statement about the M.I.T. dudes! GIGGLE GIGGLE GIGGLE, like teenage girls they did! Chris
  • jim lockard
    jim lockard Member Posts: 1,059
    Bowie Maryland

    Has a Levittown community as well all the homes there are forced air with a counterflow gas furnace and ducts in the slab. J.Lockard
  • joe_31
    joe_31 Member Posts: 24
    ge boilers

    just wanted to write this note about ge boilers. this is what i cut my teeth [and loss some hair] on when i started in the business in 1972. ne phila had a lot of them,apartment houses would have three in a row staged by od t/stats to meet the load less expensive boilers like weil mclain handeled the h/w demands. the companies i worked for in germantown,lansdale, and sellersville specialized in ge,dynatherm,timkin,abc,williams oil-a-matic we even converted 4 boilers in a mansion from herco-hercules burners to low pressure ge conversion burners. yes conversion burners to a ge. i miss this equipment. you can't pick up these units unless you listen and absorb knowledge from old farts like me. i showed a new tech how to work on a kerr furnace with an af2 burner with pre,post,and all the bells and whistles he said "this is going to be cake" know what? it is. boy do i feel old. joe

  • Dave Palmer_3
    Dave Palmer_3 Member Posts: 388
    Ron

    I know you answered this in the past,but how do you get the old boiler down? We changed one last fall and cut it in half to carry it out,with one blade!Nice work as usual,Dave
  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    GE

    Shall we start a fan club?

    58 yrs ,still happy!
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Good for you Al!


    I do not envy the poor guy that's gonna' have to carry that baby outta' there!

    I used to try to talk the customers into letting us paint them and leave them in place! Never worked.

    Get out the cutting torches when it finally dies.

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Hey Mark

    Hi Mark,

    "Ascension" via back hoe. ..Hatchway has removable stairs...no problem.

    I will miss you at Baltimore, sorry you can't make it.

    al
  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    GE Boilers

    Ron, I did not know that Levittown ,NY. had GEs. I'm from Levittown, Pa. and we had all York-Shipley Tabletop boilers,altough there were GEs in the original Levittown,Pa. Shopping Center. Willingboro( Levittown),NJ had Yorks in the first phase of construction, but counterflow furnaces were installed later. The local townships allow only certain replacement boilers with wet bases as the Yorks were installed O" clearance from the sheetrock Heater compartment walls and there were some fires as a result. The heater compartment walls in the first generation of the Levitt.,Pa. homes were all brick as your photo shows. The later generations had sheet rock instead of the brick thus the fire hazards. The GE LA20 and 30s we took care of mostly had the original compressor burners and were very quiet. The retrofitted units with Becketts or Carlins were much noisier,although the Model A Becketts with 1725 RPM were not bad. We also put in many of the Gulf Econojet burners at one time and again,were not bad as they were not flame retention. The many GE boilers we worked with had the rigid corrugated chrysotile asbestos cardboard insulation, about 1 1/4" thick. I am glad you don't have to deal with it.
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,337
    Reading your note

    brought back fond memories of our LA30, Ken. It was definetly a quiet unit.

    My late Father-in-law used to replace many of them in the Salsbury section of Worcester. They had a tendency to leak around the tankless and the folks in that area wanted replacements rather than repairs. Bill would take them out, weld a repair on the tankless then re-install them for family and friends.

    As I stated previously, we lost our tech and a good part of the radiant piping so we replaced the entire system. They were much more economical than the reputation they seem to have achieved over the years.

    Thanks for the memory.
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Jackchips,

    It wasn't so much the boilers/burners in stock trim, that were a problem. The powers that be in most companies didn't understand HOW the burners worked ! I was taught at the starting point of my carreer and everything else was SO simple after that.

    They were QUIET and efficient, but the parts became scarce. Trying to repair them most times became "bailing wire, bubblegum and duct tape. We had a good supply of parts on hand, but when they started running out we had to look at conversions. As a short aside, I got the LAST chamber that Lynn Products had made/stored for almost any G.E. boiler. They blew the dust off of it an handed it to me in 3 boxes, mind you.(had to fit through the 7" hole in the front!)

    Just for fun.... Don't be giving any of the manufacturers ideas about replicating this . Those of us that did work on them know what they did, and appreciated it. To try and start "down firing" again, will throw a wrench in the spokes of an industry that is achiving great strides in both thermal, and combustion effeciencies. Chris
  • Ken D.,

    Is this the tabletop boiler you were talking about ? You're right , I'm glad we don't have to deal with them - I replaced only one . This is in another Levitt development , in Syosset .
  • Thank you very much Chris

    From looking at your work pictures , that is the greatest compliment . Installing these boilers becomes routine pretty quick - we're up to around 30 this year already . What makes the job not so bad is a few things - the worktruck is only 15 feet away , you can have 2 guys pipe the boiler if you situate the hi-jack and ladder perfectly , and you only need 10 feet of 3/4 and 1/2 pipe to finish the job .

    I bet the MIT guys and Wiiliam Levitt laughed themselves to the grave with these babys . I'm guessing you can't get away with hanging a boiler in a kitchen anymore ?
  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    Yup, thats it.

    We had about 17,500 of those at one time. Theres probably 30-35% left. They were a very good boiler and they worked. The biggest problem with them was where they were located and it was made much worse when the places were remodeled and they were closed in with cabinetry so you couldn't get your hand in there. I had heard from one of the old Levitt workers that it was designed by one of Levitt's engineers and was licensed to York-Shipley to build. It was all straight forward mechanical operation made especially for the radiant heat. Thats why the supply was on the bottom and the return into the side with that siphon nipple. One thing about them is that they are not overly-controlled Just the primary control, 2 Klixon aquastats -that usually maintained 200 degrees- and the room T-stat. The photo you sent appears to be what we call the Levittowner model house. Thats the house we had. It is a single story ranch type house with the boiler in the kitchen. My sister still has hers firing 78% efficiency.
  • Hey Dave

    We use whats called a Hi-Jack . 89 tugs of the handle and it's at the height of the plate .

    How did you carry one of these out ? Even on the ground they're friggin heavy . Thanks Dave .
  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    jackchips

    Always a treat to speak to an 'ol GE guy. Theres not many of us left! Up until the mid 60s we could still get the parts from the Philadelphia GE branch. After that it was Sid Harvey's rebuilds all the way. Most of those S.H. parts were probably rebuilt dozens of times. I learned about them(GEs) from trade magazine articles, talking to the old timers and by trial and error. Once you understood them they were actually easy. I did take a lot of time understanding the Master Controls. There sure were a lot of wires on those things. In reality the toughest part of servicing the GEs was trying to get the covers off and on. The efficiency and lack of noise was legendary. In a sense it's sad they're pretty well gone. I have not had to work on one in at least 10 yrs. I some times still hear their quiet wispering in my sleep.
  • Dave Palmer_3
    Dave Palmer_3 Member Posts: 388
    Hey Ron

    it was too heavy for two of us so we cut it in half w/ the sawzall.Fun cutting thru inside wall.Dave
This discussion has been closed.