Stacking Munchkins

Paul Mitchell_2

Bidding on a small apartment complex. It is now natural gas and gonna stay. Very tight boiler room. 48" x 60". Was thinking of two munchkins stacked. One will do each side of the complex. Anyone ever stack them and is there a kit for that? Also if they are stacked does it make the venting more difficult? I was going to propose venting straight out the roof. Since they modulate based on return water temp etc. I can not see the need for an additional Teckmar control or primary secondary piping. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Mark Hunt

How big?

Which size Munchkin are you planning on using?

I would be more concerned with being able to get at the interior after the installation, considering the tops lift/slide off.

If two 80's will do it, consider the T80 wall hung units.


Mark H

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Paul Mitchell_2

Good point Mark

First how do the other ideas sound? Looking at one 140M and one 199M. I could face them out differant from the old hydrotherm system. So no stacking for me if the service will be harder.

Waylon Lowery

You betcha!

We have stacked Munchkins in several different jobs. We built our own steel rack, and yes it did make venting a little tricky...but we were going out through the sidewall. Since you are going out through the roof it should be cleaner. You will have to extend the flue on the bottom boiler horizontally to avoid the upper boiler's flue; but once you do that you will just elbow up and go straight out the roof. Tekmar controls and injection or mixing aren't really necessary as long as you are running a one temperature heating system. If you are doing radiant and heating domestic hot water, I'd recommend using the Vision Controls. Contact your Munchkin rep for more details or see their web page...

Good Luck.

Paul Mitchell_2

More info

I could use a weil mclain Ultra 310 and do the whole complex. That might be the way to go. especially to save room. The system is currently 2 zones of copper baseboard. Each apartment has 30-40 ft. The main starts 2" in the boiler room and reduces as it goes. Each apartment feeds off the loop in parallel, not a reverse loop, first supply is first return. 125,000 btus worth of apartments on one zone and 150,000 on the other. T-stat in one apartment on each zone is the boss.

Mark Hunt

You definately


Have to pipe them P/S or add a buffer tank. I thought I could get away without it too when the new boards came out, but no go.

The 925 with the Vision 1 control will get you outdoor reset, so no other control is necessary. The Vision 2 will modulate both boilers.

Again, you really need P/S or a buffer tank.

Hope this helped!


Mark H

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Paul Mitchell_2

Thanks Mark

jwade55_3

My first

Thought is what is the actual load, use this to first determine the boiler sizing. The next step I would take is to then decide on one or two boilers, my choice is two, redundancy, rotation, lead lag etc. As far as stacking the munchkins, have several jobs that I have designed this way. Most were done with some uni-strut frames, just allow for enough access from the top of the bottom unit. P/S is a great way to pipe two units, just make sure they both see the coldest return water possible, efficiency.

J

Steamhead

Boilerpro has stacked them too

and did a real nice job, but I can't remember if they were Munchkins or something else. Hey Dave, how about some pics?

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jw

Stack em

They stack jes fine. No kit tho, just weld one up from square tube or use unistrut. Make sure you leave enough room above the lower boiler for service. Venting should be no biggie, but I'd use the concentric kits thru the roof or the sidewall.

Depending on what you are firing, BB, rad etc, you should not need too fancy of a control structure, just keep in mind that the lowest BTU emitter circuit needs to be as large as the minimum input of the model munchkin you are using. Otherwise, you will need a buffer tank.

If you are making hot water for the complex as well, I would for sure go with the vision1

was this helpful?

jw

hr

Can the intake airs combine?

on Munchkins. I know they have some clever ways to vent with combined 2". Maybe intakes could tee together for ease of dual unit installation.

hot rod

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Mark Hunt

Not sure


Maybe our resident HTP guy can answer.

Where's Chuck?

Mark H

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chuck shaw

For combination air

intakes, fax over a detailed drawing to the tech support department, and we will let you know. It is done on a job by job basis. We will need, model and serial number of each boiler, and the address where they will be installed, along with the installing contractors name.

If you want, look into the Vision 3 system. It will stage and rotate up to 8 boilers. Give me a call on Monday morning and I will do my best to help you out.

Hope this helps,

Chuck Shaw

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Delmas_2

Stacking Munchkins

We did this retail office supply store with a 199M and a 140M.
The 199M is on the bottom and the 140M on top.
The pictures I'm attaching are the best I have but they do not show finished piping.

I need to get finished photos.
Delmas

nathan gugenheim

apt oversizing- mark this should interest you!

what area of the country?(outdoor design)
what is the original btu in?
we have found that we easily get away with 1/2 to a 1/3
of the original input.

we have:50 apts original 1.8 mil now 3 - m199 also v3(2seasons)
2 blg " original 1.9 mil each now 2-399each also v3
32 apts original 1 mil now 2 - m199 also v3

and on and on also have 25 apt all masonry 3flr 1-m199?

nathan gugenheim

apt oversizing- mark this should interest you!

what area of the country?(outdoor design)
what is the original btu in?
we have found that we easily get away with 1/2 to a 1/3
of the original input.

we have:50 apts original 1.8 mil now 3 - m199 also v3(2seasons)
2 blg " original 1.9 mil each now 2-399each also v3
32 apts original 1 mil now 2 - m199 also v3

and on and on also have 25 apt all masonry 3flr 1-m199?