Check valve ?'s

Jack_23

What are you using on your heat systems for check valves. Swings or springs? Why do you like one or the other. Is one better than another for certain systems (heat/potable)? I've had some issues and would like your thoughts. TIA!

kevin coppinger_4

have pretty given up...

on check by themselves. I now almost only use the grundfos ifc or an occational taco ifc. I still use an occational swet check. Spring checks would work fine for a bit but I wonder about their longevity. kpc

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Unknown

Check Valves

Spring check valves are used on the discharge line of pumps that cycle on and off. The spring in the check valve helps prevent the Check (flap) from banging against the seat of the check valve every time the pump cycles on.

Swing check valves are used to keep a fluid flowing in one direction. The swing check valve works best when used on a constant flow system or where back pressure is not generated quickly.


Jake

DanHolohan

Just curious

Why do you prefer the Grundfos over the Taco IFC, Kevin?

Kal Row

also

the Grundfos ckv is on the discharge side where it can not affect the NetPositiveSuctionHead (cavtation protection) and is serviceable - i had one chatter recently because of dirt - it was real easy to clean up

spring checks are important to protect against convective heat migration - ie - cooler water being more dense drops like a rock and displaces warmer water even in a single pipe, so if your zone valves are on the return side, and as a result the zone supplies, are open to the hot supply header, -you need a spring check on each, or all the heat, will just migrate up the 'effectively" open zones to the highest point
same goes for a indirect domestic hot water tank – even the warm water from return header is still cooler than the standing water in the coils of the IDHW tank, and will drop right into the coils of the IDHW tank without a spring check

so use spring checks to guarantee flow only when you want it – make sure they are serviceable, and try to cut down the amount of them, by piping downward from hot to cold by at least 18 inches where possible – eg having zone valves on the supply and even then – take them off underneath the supply header, for pri/sec/injection, inject downward from the boiler loop to the bottom of the system loop just past the returns, pump the IDHW coils in hot at the bottom and return at the top then down to the boiler’s return

little tricks like those heat trap loops that can save a lot of spring checks and be less restrictive to the pump than the spring check

Rocky

What brand of spring checks for heat?

Have several applications where we use the spring checks. Would use the IFC pumps, but the only one we get up here in Fairbanks is the Taco 007. Have lots of applications where I need a 0010, or 0011 etc so have to resort to spring checks. What brand do you guys use. It is like pulling teeth here to get something other than those rated for cold water well lines. Unrelated issue, suppossed to go to -25 tonight here. Who says spring has sprung?
warm regards from chilly Fairbanks,
Rocky

John White

input

There is great input here for us a Taco. Thank you all.
The ifc is available in the 0010 and 0011, as well as all the rest of the Taco circ models. I will make certain someone gets in touch with you as to where you can find them....even in Fairbanks!
The location of the ifc is a constant source of debate, and we are looking at that.
Again, thanks for the input.
jhw

Kal Row

when are your 00VV pumps shipping?

heatTimer makes a vraiable voltage control compatible with it

Joe Mattiello

Integral, or external checkvalves

Good Afternoon
Thank you, for using Taco, products. Check valves, are always recommended when zoning with circulators, to prevent migration. In some cases they are used on the supply, and return, if the pressure drop is too high with primary, secondary piping. This adds additional resistance, and cost to the system. Taco, introduced a circulator line with integral flow checks, 00 series ifc (integral flow check), that is well recognized in the HVAC industry as being a quality product, at a relatively, low cost. The IFC circulators are available in several sizes, including the 0010, and 0011s, giving you more capacity, and an increase in performance. Additionally, the check valve is replaceable should it fail, but if it's a Taco pump you may never have to replace it. For your convenience I have attached the submittal data sheets for the Taco 0010-F3-IFC, and the standard 0010-F3 to compare performance characteristics. Please advise, if you require additional assistance.
Joe Mattiello
Technical Support Services
Tel. 401-942-8000 X 484
Fax. 401-942-2360
joemat@taco-hvac.com

hr

The 15-58 Grundfos

is a 3 speed pump so it covers a lot more range than a single speed. Check is in the discharge, and it has a 3 year warranty. What's not to like

hot rod

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Steve_45

P/S

Kal could you please explain this in a little more
detail. "to the bottom of the system loop just past the returns" a diagram would help if possible. Nothing fancy.
Thanks,
Steve

Kal Row

attached is a diag

in this instance - i had to pipe the takoffs upward because there was other pipes below the system loop so the returns had to come in downward, as a result, forcing the zone supplies to come off the top, but it's not a problem here because a closed ZV stops the convection on the supply, and ther shouldnt be too much convetion on the open returns with it being on the bottom of the system

Kal Row

tekmar doesnt support less than speed #2

on their injection controlers with this pump because of the low starting torque - but a VV pump is desinged to start with full torque even at the lowest setting - doesnt mean that grundfoss cant make it, in fact the do on the magna series - they just havent made it for the USA market yet

hr

Kal

I'm not sure you would use a 3 sped pump for injection. The Grundfos 15-42 would be a better choice. The 15-58 on speed 2 is very similar.

The VV pump is DC? How else would it start with full torque? I'm sure you remember the UFC VS pump. Talk about starting torque.

hot rod

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kevin coppinger_4

well a few...

reasons. 1)The location of the check valve on the outlet.
2) the 3 speed option 3) the wire terminals 4)and the boxes for wiring seem to be attached to the pump housing better...kpc

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Kal Row

doubt that it's DC

brushless DC make a lot of noise unless they have active circuitry like you hard disk has – too expensive – and switched reluctance would be even more expensive, nah, it’s probably a duty cycle waveform chopper like other controllers, just that it is signaled by input voltage, but being that it’s integral with the pump, it can get feedback and provide full torque until it reaches desired speed

Kal Row

ps according to tekmar

even on speed 2 you want to stop down balance valve a bit to give to something to push against, it seems, for longevity of the pump, you want the mixer to run at 60% or higher

ps - i picked up a whole lot of 15-58fc's real cheap, so i used it, probably got it, because they were trying to get rid of old stock, for the cosmetically changed superbrute II label,
also with the manufacturing move to the USA from Germany it got a lot cheaper for them

Jimmy Gillies

Checkvalve.

That's a very cool product Joe. I don't think anything like that is available in the UK. Who says Europe is ahead of the US with HVAC products ?
Kind regards.
Jimmy Gillies.