What is this for?

DL

Can anyone help explain to me what this valve is for?

Between the primary and secondary of my heating system there is a valve (looks like the valve on the side of your house for the garden hose) that essentially circumvents the mixing valve (variable speed injector). It is in parallel to the mixing valve (variable speed injector).

It is labelled "Red and White" 212A Class 125.
I believe it might allow flow for the mixing valve (variable speed injector) when no zone valves are open.

I'm guilty of playing with it a bit and am not sure what it should be set at. If I remember correctly it was 90% turned fully clockwise. Hint: somewhere between 80 and 95% clockwise it will make a whistling sound as if water is zooming through it.

I'm afraid of having it too open (might cause mixing valve to be bypassed)? Or too closed (as it must have some function). I'm assuming fully clockwise is fully closed.


Thanks

Weezbo

do me a favor ....

rather than speculate too much..look for th 212 red and white ..on Google go to the product page and click on the pdf for 212. is that what you are looking at in Your home?

S Davis

Valve

It sounds like a globe valve, is it in the return line going back to the boiler loop? I use a globe valve in that spot, some times when you have a small mixing load you need to be able to restrict the flow so the pump will mix more smoothly.

S Davis

bob young

red white 212 is a globe valve. might be for isolation if work on mixing valve is necessary. globe's are also used for throttling if control application valve is normally full open

DL

Just looked at www.redandwhitevalveusa.com and saw the 212.
Yes, my valve looks like that but then again it looks like any of the Red and White valves listed there.

It is definitely labelled "Red & White 212A"
My mixing valve is in the middle of a pipe that runs from the output of my primary circulator to the input of the circulator that feeds the zone valves. The Red & White 212A is located on a pipe that is also between these two points.

I really appreciate you guys trying to help.
I tried to get ahold of my heating guy but he's been missing for the past 3 days.

DL

It appears that you described what I have.
Is this usually in parallel to the mixing valve pipe?

Now, how do I figure out where it should be set at?
I can hear water rushing (whistling) through it at approximately 90% clockwise position.

What happens if it's too clockwise or too counter-clockwise?

Thanks!

Weezbo

it is a general concensus...

so far most of us would say it is to help balance the injector for longer run times ...try a one time experiment....turn the valve closed and then open the valve 5 revolutions...while holding you hand over the return pipe....hang in there a bout 3 mins any temp change? also see if there is a temp gageon the return pipe near the Boiler..if the temperature reading at this point goes way down..then you got to let us know if you have an oil burner or a naturaal gas boiler...oil i can give you accurate ideas about...Gas i am not so good some like really low water temps compared to oil return temps.

DL

Looking at it more closely, I also believe it is to balance the outflow of the injector.

As the injector sends hot primary water to the secondary this valve probably allows return water into the primary to balance it off (allow a flowing water circuit)

I have natural gas.

When you suggested I feel to see if the "return" drops in temperature quickly, are you suggesting I feel the temp of the pipe holding this valve or the return portion of the secondary piping?

Weezbo

Soon you will have some good help with the temp settings .

lay your hand on the pipe going Back to the primary loop...in about 3 mins most any recirc and any designe radiant will come "back."on a natural gas boiler you can run water back maybe around 100 degrees on just about any of them..so...did you see a temp gage on the return on the boiler? if not there is a gage on the boiler. this isnt quite as accurate information exactly however these guys here are far more familiar with all the various Names and brands...if the water comes back really cold like 50 degrees or sothen just leave it alone and take a reading of the boiler gage...this way by noting the run time,and temp changes on the gage ,and how manytimes the boiler is turning off and on...some one here will tell you in a heart beat whether to open or close it a bit more...that will get you thru till you can get some body There to check things with some tools in hand:) Hope this helped.

Mark Eatherton1

Hold your mouse...

directly over the valve, and right click on the mouse...Wait a minute, that only works on screen. Better yet..

Get a digital camera, take a picture of it. Print the picture of it. Scan the photograph into a digital form and send it to me as an e-mail.

Wait a minute, we've just violated the digital double digital electronic transmission act of 1954.

Here, try this. Take a picure of it and post it here on The Wall, and i GUARANTEE you we can identify it.:-)

If not FULLY satisfied, we'll DOUBLE your money back:-)

ME

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DL

I had a heating guy come out 2 weeks ago to adjust the settings on my Tekmar. Was using too much gas. The boiler now runs much cooler.

He said there wasn't much worry about condensing since the boiler would very quickly ramp up past that point.
I think he set the lowest point to 40 deg C which is 100 deg F. (cast iron boiler - Viessmann Vitogas 50)

Now back to that valve.

I did what you said and yes the return seems to cool off faster but I can't say for sure. Since the heating system is now set to kick in at 100 deg F and stop at 130 deg F,
I have a hard time telling if the system is dropping much faster than normal or not. It just seems a bit faster.
And, that could vary with whether or not my zone valves are opening.

I left the valve at about 80% clockwise. Seems to be working so I'll try and get the heating guy in to check.

If anyone has any input that will help me understand how everything should work, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

DL

Weezbo, first of all thanks for all the help.

Can you clarify what you mean by:
"...in about 3 mins most any recirc and any designe radiant will come "back."

Not sure what I am to look for. I don't have a temp gauge on the return, just on the supply water to my radiant floors and on the boiler itself.

I assume you mean then to look at the boiler's gauge for a temp drop when I open up that valve. See my other reply to see that I can't tell if it is making any difference.

Weezbo

Yes !

You got it working! cool. the tek mar will bail you out of almost anything for a day just dont fornicate with it! ) what i mean by come back..by sorta twisting the valve about you changed some, what we might refer to as minor technicalities...,it probably increased mix flow though the slab and moved the fluids back at the boiler. now maybe your hand didnt feel the cold however the boiler probably did...it is under control.it is sorta smart at that....it is kinda like having a college kid doing partial diferential equasions every 15 min or so and tweaking a bunch of valves:) except its probably Cheaper.

hr

Is it installed like this?

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,7879,00.html

Sounds like a throttle valve for the injection, and yes it needs to be set correctly to allow that injection pump to run.

It can be set by temperature, also. That thermometer I mentioned above would be great to set, and watch, what's going on. I'll look for an article dealing with temperature settings of this valve. Or you can at the www.pmmag.com archives

hot rod

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hr

Here is another link for ya

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,15610,00.html

hot rod

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leo g_96

dixon

i thought i was your heating guy!

just kidding!

leo g

DL

That's It !!!

HotRod, the diagram on the first web link you provided shows exactly what I have.

Now, the problem is where to set that throttling valve.
It appears from the article that some systems do not have a throttling valve (but have that return pipe) so the default would be fully open. Correct?
Then we would use the throttling valve to maximize the injector effectiveness. In other words, do NOT fully close that throttling valve, better to have it fully open.

I remember the heating guy holding a compass-like tool to the injector pump and said it is barely turning. He said Grunfos did not have a 'true' variable speed injector in North America. Instead they were throttling back the voltage until these units barely operated correctly.

Can anyone elaborate on this or give me advice on a quick and dirty way to set that throttling valve semi-correctly?

Thanks!

hr

Try this again

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,15610,00.html

if it doesn't work www.pmmag.com look into the archives for the Dec. 2000 column of Siggys. Here he explains 3 methods of setting that valve.

No, it shouldn't be wide open. If that were the case it wouldn't be there

I'm not sure what a "true" variable speed injector means. I use the Grundfos MixiMiser a lot. It seems "true" to me:)

hot rod

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