Boiler/burner decisions

Chuck_10

Hi all,
First post here but been lurking for a while and enjoying the discussions.

I don't know if this can be easily answered in this space so apologies ahead of time, but this is a decision a consumer faces:

We're in the northeast (Long Island) and faced with replacing our oil-fired, American Standard boiler roughly four years before we plan to sell our house. It's a ~forty to fifty year old Ranch, 2400 sf. with h/w baseboard and radiators. I should also note we replaced the burner last year with a Riello (on the advise of our oil distributer guy) to the tune of ~$700. The boiler now has sprung some leaks in a heat exchanger and we'd like to just replace the whole thing. We're spending around $3000 a year now for oil.

We found a contractor we're comfortable with who's offered two options. Option "A" would be a Buderus with that Logamatic thing (and possibly a new burner, but he's not sure yet if ours will work) and Option "B" would be a Peerless (or Burnham, my pref. in this catagory, but what do I know?) keeping the burner, with around $2000 separating the two choices.

And my wife does finance for a living.

So can this situation be distilled down to this question: Will investing in the efficiency of the Buderus system make up for the cost difference over the remaining four years we'll be here?

I know it'd take longer to recoup the whole investment but I'm interested in the _difference_ between the two options given identical scenarios. My wife (The Controller) feels keep the upfront cost down, we're leaving anyway. I (The One Who Fixes Stuff and Understands How They Work), feel the whole cost has to include the efficiency savings of the more expensive Buderus. But how much more efficient (and how much can also be included in the sale of the house, but that's another subject). Not to slight our humble contractor, but we could really use some hard facts to support our decision.

Thanks for any input, slaps upside the heads, or crushing blows to the feet.

C.

Steamhead

They're all good boilers

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of them. The most important thing is proper installation.

You say your old A-S has a leaky "heat exchanger". Are you referring to a coil in the boiler that heats your faucet water, or one of the cast-iron sections that heats the water going to the radiators? If the former, you can save a lot of money by switching to an indirect tank-type heater. These aren't cheap, but they'll lower your oil consumption as compared to a tankless coil since you won't have to keep the boiler at full temperature all the time- and lower consumption is a good selling point!

Most times, new boilers come with burners matched to the boiler. Therefore, you may not be able to use your existing Riello in the new boiler.

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S Davis

Buderus

If it was me I would use a buderus, they are easier to service in my opinion, I am not saying the other boilers are not good products, but being from a service background I have serviced most of the brands out there.
If you want to spend less use a aquastat instead of the Logamatic control it will save you some on the install.
I use Riello burners on my Buderus installs, if the burner you have matches the output of the new boiler the installer should be able to use it.

S Davis

Chuck_10

Heat exchanger

Right, based on what I've found in my research, any of them are decent. But the question in my mind is, if the total costs over the next four years comes out about the same, why not sell the house with the added benefit of the best quality oil-fired system. That would work if the Buderus is as efficient as the literature states. Might be a selling point.

The exchanger is a cylindrical outboard unit about a foot or so long and maybe 10 inches in diameter with a cap on one end secured by a dozen or so bolts. There's obviously a gasket there that's failing but the whole thing has become so rusted no one's got the nerve to try to loosen the bolts at the risk of the whole thing failing (did I mention it's all encased in that magic white stuff too? Our contractor has assured us the proper abatement procedures will be followed). Anyway, we'd like to just replace the whole thing and not have to worry about passing a possible problem on to the next owner. A lot of good karma came with our purchase of the house, we just want to pass it on.

C.

Chuck_10

That's my inclination as well as our contractor's.
But the question's come up elsewhere whether parts are readily available.

Any thoughts?

C.

Robert O'Connor_3

Boiler not the problem

Controls and the burner are where you need parts. But you're probably living in the heaviest consentration of oil heat uses in the country. Parts should not be an issue.
Huge Buderus Distributor in LI City, Queens. Go for the Buderus if the Riello fits. I doubt you'll save 2 grand in 4 heating seasons, but it should help in the sale of the house.

Paul Mitchell

DO NOT KEEP

the burner. I would recommend that either forget the cost or talk the contractor into giving you a partial credit. Maybe he can install the burner in another retrofit. Get the burner that comes with the system. Even if it is a Riello it has been set up by the manufacturer for that boiler. Could void warranty if you don't or worse yet be an insurance liability.

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pr_malk_2

$3000/ year for fuel?!!!

Wow! That is a huge amount to spend on fuel. I live in Vermont and have a slightly smaller house, heat with propane, and have a crappy Coleman warm air furnace and cheap Bradford-White DHW heater and spend 1/2 of that. My old house with a Weil-McLane/Beckett oil burner with HWBB and tankless coil DHW still didn't burn $1800/yr.

To be fair it is just my wife and I, but the thermostat is always set at atleast 65.

Is this typical out there? Why? I don't like the Saudi or Texax oil barons that much.

jim sokolovic

People in the market...

for buying your home have probably not given much concern over exactly what your heating system is comprised of, other than if it is a reasonably new, efficient system that they will not have to replace anytime soon. It's not like they are shopping for a boiler, where they might research this. No particular brand is going to reep a better price for your home. Why not consider a Slant/Fin boiler - we are located on Long Island, which could be considered a plus for the prospective buyers?

Mark Hunt

Whichever


boiler you choose, add the total installation cost to the price of your home.

Mark H

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jim sokolovic

So much for my...

sales pitch! Seriously, where does boiler name fall on the average homebuyer's wish list? You think your going to get another $2000 for having a Buderus? Get real.

Tundra

Given the options you have listed I would go with the Buderus, hands down. If you want to save a few dollars look into the Biasi. It has a similar three pass design, the GG20 cast iron, a competive price, and I understand a growing number of dealers on Long Island. I have one in my home in Alaska and I can not praise it enough.

Weezbo

i am curious ..how many SQ ' are you heating?

Sir..an investment in insulation in the ceiling blown in loose fill..would likely save you a veritable fortune over a 4 year period of time. may i say ,some expenditures have No Maintinace or operational issuses.insulation is one of them .the long term effective ness of a smaller heat plant would be immediately observable,$ wise. never seen a boiler that can actually Heat the surrounding countryside no matter who owned it.or for that matter who professes to make such a devise.

Chuck_10

About our heating costs...

I didn't mention it because I didn't think it mattered but a couple have asked; this house, while far from well insulated, has an accessory apartment that's been rented to two adults. Their usage is part of that $3000/yr. figure.

Also we'll be doing an interior renovation soon that will join the two parts of the house (no change in total space)and will include a much needed extra layer of insulation in the attic space.

C.

Anthony_4

65

Are you kidding at 65, my wife would choke me 72 or better period.I want to be warm

scrook_2

if you're out in 4 years...

I'd go w/ the Peerless, or Burnham, etc. being *sure* you could use the 1 year old Riello you have now in it (confirm w/ the boiler mfg) if you don't just get a complete package. You'll not recoop the difference in up front cost in 4 years, nor will you recover it on the sale (all the buyer will see is a recent heating system, vs. an old heating system), if you were staying for the long haul it might be differant.

Steamhead

That's a \"side-arm\" tankless heater

which requires the boiler to be kept at full temperature so it can operate.

Any boiler will be cheaper to run with a tank-type indirect. If it's a choice between spending the extra money on a Buderus or an indirect, I'd go with the indirect.

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Chuck_10

Thanks for all the input!

As I expected, there's no real consensus but that's OK. I got alot of quality feedback which I also expected and now it's time (actually past, this thing's leaking like a Dutch dyke) to make a decision. I'll post some before/after shots when all's said and done.

Thanks again.

C.