Thermopan experiment

Wayco Wayne_2

I was flying home from my visit to Apple Valley and my minicamp experience. A bit hung over from too much adult beverage and Kareoke, a formidable combination. I was fortunate enough to sit near a nice young man from West VA. who had also attended and we passed the time and shared ideas and storys of the trade. He told me about a product called thermopan that they used in suspended tube radiant floor installs to create a definitive air space for the tubing to warm. When I got home I checked into the product. It's primary use is to create return duct passages in floor joist spaces for forced air systems in inexpesive installs. You staple this foil faced cardboard into place to provide a passage for air. It is sized for 16 inch and 24 inch joists spaces and has a pre folded tab for bending and stapling it into place. (as if the carpenter is going to be that accurate). I ordered some and used it in a recent job. I liked the idea of creating the air space so I would not have to depend on the insulators to leave the air space above the insulation. It worked great, but.... it adds a bit of time to your labor. If you have inexpensive labor to do it for you it might be worthwhile, but labor is so expensive here that by adding another pass of install labor after installing clips then tubing then the thermopan, I think next time I am just going to use that money to install joist trak plates and be done with it. Then the insulators can just insulate up to the floor and no one is stressed. Here are some pics of the job

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Boilerpro_3

You know...

that could be a great backer for Watts EPDM radiant tubing. Thanks for sharing.

Boilerpro

Mark Eatherton1

I hope...

you're insulating with something in addition to the duct board.

Other than that, looks pretty nifty.

ME

Robert O'Connor_7

Thermopan...

How thick is that stuff and about how much is it... BOC

Wayco Wayne_2

Mark, That's the whole idea,

that you create the air space and then let the insulators shove the batts up to the thermopan. Before, I would haunt the insulators saying you know we need a 2 inch air space and being a pain in the tuckus to make sure they get it right. Around here the insulators aren't rocket scientist and don't much care unless you make a fuss. The thermospan is about the thickness of a regular cardboard box with foil on both sides. It comes in 4 foot sections and is about 2.30 per piece. WW

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heatboy

That is one of the best ideas.............

that has come here to the Wall, Wayne! You are right. Leaving spacing in the hands of the insulators is a recipe for tearing down ceilings. I don't do suspended tube, but if I did, Thermopan would be included in every project.

Was there beer involved in the thought process? Some of the most innovative ideas (Wetstock) were born from beer. Yime for breakfast. Where's that Guiness??

hb

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Kal Row

i see the tubes clipped to the floor

is this system quiet?

Mad Dog

Why is this post so wide????

Is it my computer, or the way the thread is posted??? Mad Dog

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radiant_2

if your going through the labor of putting up the insulation why not do it right in the first place and use transfer shields? Of course only if on top of the floor is not possible

radiant_2

if your going through the labor of putting up the insulation why not do it right in the first place and use transfer shields? Of course only if on top of the floor is not possible

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Wide Posts

The entire thread will take on the width of a wide element like a photo.

The width of a photo on your display depends on the resolution of your monitor. If you are running at 800x600 resolution you might want to increase to 1024 x 768 (or higher). You might have to enlarge some other things (text, icons, etc.) if they get too small for either your monitor or your eyes

I [think] this site is optimized for 1024 x 768 resolution, but it accepts photos of nearly any size. I've noticed that really huge ones kind of "jump down" to just fill my screen once they've loaded at full size but "in between" sizes still wind up with horizontal scroll bars.

For photos that display with your message it seems a good idea to keep the width down to about 864 pixels (or 12 inches @ 72 dpi screen resolution). If you're running at at least 1024 x 768 resolution and don't have additional windows running at the sides, everything (photos & text) will display without horizontal scrollbars.

Mark Eatherton1

Good...

Just wanted to make sure you weren't depending on the reflective capablilites alone to make your system work. Gotta have R value too.

ME

Wayco Wayne_2

Yeah

I don't rely on the relectability at all. I figure it will be covered with dust in no time anyways. The job by this time has already had R-19 batts shoved up to the thermopan and been drwalled over. The tubing is holding 85 psi and life is good. WW

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Wayco Wayne_2

Yeah

I don't rely on the relectability at all. I figure it will be covered with dust in no time anyways. The job by this time has already had R-19 batts shoved up to the thermopan and been drwalled over. The tubing is holding 85 psi and life is good. WW

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Riles_3

Thanks for the pictures

Wayne:

I wondered how the Thermopan worked out.

I am tired of the, "It's not working call", then I arrive and belly crawl into a tight crawl space only to find a 4" air gap on the sides and 8" in the center where the insulation sags in the middle.

I am an advocate of the aluminum plates. Because if it is not the insulation incorrectly installed. The other thing I find, is the guy that wants to cut it close on water temps, insists on using a water heater and swears the homeowner will never put down a rug.

Of course, in addition to the bad insulation install, you find a thick rug and pad covering 70% of the room.

I like the joist trak plates since they usually give you room to bump up the water temp.

I have had many successful suspended tubing jobs but I only recommend after two things; as Barba puts it "do the math", factor in future changes to floor coverings, & I am comfortable used in interior spaces.

Insulators are better when told to push it up against the joist trak plates.

Wayco Wayne_2

Hey Jeff

You know I did my homework and a heat load calc. The walls had R-19 and the floors are hardwood. Suspended tube should be fine even with a multiplicity of throw rugs. At $2.30 for every 4 foot of joist space as compared to $ 10.00 for 2 joist trak plates in the same space you can see the material savings per linar foot. The extra labor compromised the savings though and while I saved some it wasn't enough to justify doing it. I will probably do plates exclusively from now on. WW

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