Why can't I get this boiler clean?

Dominic_2

I've got a 4-year old Utica PEG, neglected but now trying to make up for those years of neglect. Our first problems were during the recent deep freeze, water got very dirty and surging pretty badly. Had the boiler repiped after water came out of the radiators, thoroughly skimmed afterwards.

Then the water gauge started clogging up. First time I called out the plumber, next 2 times I cleaned it out myself, all in the space of a couple of weeks. At that point, it's time to do something about this.

Round #1 with Dry Steam cleaner, followed by multiple blow-downs, followed by Colloid. Water is surging badly with Colloid. Plumbing supplies guy tells me I was a dope for following the instructions on the bottle, so....

Round #2 with Dry Steam cleaner, this time left in for 2 days, followed by basically a day of blow-downs until I can't get the water any cleaner, followed by skimming, followed by Colloid.

Now the water is still surging. There also appears to be particulate matter floating in the water gauge.

What next? Drain the Colloid out and leave it at that? I'd like to add some protection for the boiler. Another round of Dry Steam? Do I have a problem with the water coming in from the hot water tank? Could multiple blow-downs have introduced a lot of gunk from the hot water tank? The latter is about 10 years old.

Oh and another "new thing" is that when the boiler fires relatively cool, it makes a very loud "bubbling" noise (for want of a better phrase) that it did not make before, until it heats up.

I'd be grateful for any opinions or suggestions...

George_10

Call us we will help

Call 800-543-5975 and ask for Dwight. We have been taking care of these kinds of problems for 20 years.

Help is only a phone call away.

Scott25

pocketbook

Hold on to your wallet for for that kind of help...

kevin coppinger_4

well if it works.....

it's worth it, is it not?

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J.C.A._3

Back to basics,

See the install manual. If the "near boiler piping" doesn't match the suggested drawings,act accordingly.

The manufacturer had a LOT more time to figure this out than the guy installing the boiler did. (That would be the reason for the "preffered piping methods").

Some cowboy taking a WAG(wild **** guess) at piping it "his way" will cause more problems than suggested piping and will usually lead to problems like the ones your experiencing.

All the chemicals in the world won't make up for poor piping. The designers and common sense(which ain't so common)explain fully how they want it done. It should be followed to the "T". Chris

David_5

Just a thought

Drain some water into a pot and put it on the stove to boil. See what it looks like there. If it boils ok in the pot, look to piping issues.

David

lisa

colloid

Get rid of the colloid its causing the surging, and skim, skim, skim.

Dominic_2

I don't think it's the piping

The original knucklehead installer made all the classical mistakes in installing the piping. I found this out when I read Dan's book. We recently had it repiped as per manual specs, they did a very good job, so I don't think the piping is the problem.

I am pretty sure it is the colloid that is causing the surging, and that presumably because of dirty water. Yet nothing I do will get the water sufficiently clean to stop the surging when I add colloid.

There is also that "bubbling" sound I alluded to, that's new...

gerry gill

i'd do what george said

and call rhomar water...this is what they do for a living.

Unknown

How old is the return piping ?

Do you have a way to isolate the return and purge all the gook out of piping ? I find it much more easy to purge the returns than to keep draining the boiler and adding chemicals till they both are clean .

We typically add a liquid cleaner and steam the boiler up with the valve on the return closed and the drain on the return open . It takes a good long time , but eventually the condensate comes back clean and hot . I was on a recent install , a Burnham V84 and it took about 30 gallons of water before the returns were totally flushed .

Would you have some pictures of the new pipework you could post here ? Like JCA said , the near boiler piping is extremely critical to the steam system .

Steamhead

I think Ron nailed it

The system is probably as dirty as the boiler was. All that dirt is being worked out of the piping and radiators and ending up in the boiler. Keep at it and eventually it will stay clean.

I dislike using chemicals in steam boilers because you have to flush them out, which can be difficult. That said, there is a time for using them and this might be the time for you.

Check out the last chapter of Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" which deals with this topic. Utica's instructions are in there. If you don't have a copy, order one on the Books and More page of this site.

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Mad Dog

Sound advice....and if the piping is up to snuff............

get yourself a box of MEX industrial soap (most paint and hardware stores have it for cleaning brick and stuff). Mix a half of a box in warm water and funnel it in to your boiler. Fire the boiler multiple times and keep flushing out the MEX and sludge. Fire boiler till steaming and flush out until water no longer feels soapy and water line is fairly stable. This could take you 4-6 hours or more, but will eventualy get that puppy clean. Mad Dog

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Dominic_2

Dominic_2

boiler pics, water quality

In response to request for pics: first two pics are of the risers and header (2nd riser had to turn left a bit so the hot water heater could be moved in and out)...last pic is the header *before* the repiping....

It does seem (to me) like water quality is the problem here. I can see the crud accumulating at the top of the water gauge. Getting the accumulated dirt out of the system was why I was told to leave Dry Steam #3 in there for 2 days. Perhaps even that was not enough. I'll try people's suggestions, also talk to Romhar Water...

Thanks much for the help
--dd

steve_6

Is that Flue

Damper scorched? Kinda looks like it is . If so you might need some combustion testing done as well!

Scott25

heck yes

I would suggest cleaning the boiler also! I would seek out a local reputable water treatment company. Who wants to pay to ship "distilled water" across the country?

George_10

I have phone calls every day with contractors all

over the country about problems they are having with systems. It is our company policy to try to be helpful whether a sale of chemicals results or not. Many times it is just a simple change of tactics that solves the problem.

In any event, we are open to any phone call which comes in to us due to a system problem such as the one in this tread.
We do get our share of new clients, but you can be assured that the quality of our advice is not conditioned on spending money with us. Our nationwide business has grown by word of mouth and referrals from people who have spoken to us about their specific problem.

If you are going to be at Wetstock IV or Radfest in May in Loveland stop by and talk with us. We follow the most basic tenant of business. Be helpful to those that have a problem and the business will follow.

Now for those of you that are recovering from March 17th.
I told you to be careful. Some of life's lessons do stick with you after enough years have been enjoyed. One of the advantages of graying hair and few more years.

Dominic_2

Dwight from Romhar just spent quite a bit of time on the telephone with me discussing some of the issues, I really appreciate the help (as well as the help provided here).