Flu termination problem

Wayco Wayne_2

of the PVC flu termination with the customer ahead of time. The basement ceiling is only 4 inches above the ground level. There are windows and window wells all around the basement. The only way out is through the old chimney and out the back wall of the chimney. We cant go up the chimney because it is offset and not a straight sho down. They said OK and their heads nodded up and down. Now that the flu termination is in they are horrified. It looks just awful they say. It makes me sad. I really put a lot of work into it. 6 hours of chopping through brick morter and stone. I guess they just didnt imagine the final product well enough. Because it was so low coming out right above ground level I could not use a concentric vent. So we had to do the old pericope set up. They are not happy. The GC and the Archectech have come out to look at it. I have given everyone copied of the manufacturers installation guidelines. They have suggested ways of disguising it so it blends in a bit. Painting the PVC so it blends into the wall behind it. Boxing it with lattice and growing vines so it is covered. So where am I going with this? After the homeowners and archetech have left. To relieve the tension the GC and any other contractor on the job came up with artistic solutions that the homeowner obviosly would not consider. I thought a sculptured head of a dragon over the pipes would look cool, especially when the boiler is on and the steam would be coming out it's nostrils. The plumber thought of piling up rocks to make a faux volcano and have the steam rising out of the crater in the top. My favorite was the GC's idea of painting the top of a submarine on the side of the house and having the flu pipe be the periscope. Ha! Dont know what will come of things. I guess we will work things out. Any ideas are welcome. Both serious and whimsical. WW

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kevin coppinger_4

aren't HO...

grand? Sometimes you tell them one thing and they just don't get it...nothing registers...
Dave Yates one time dug a channel about 25' feet away from the house in a similar situation then came up in an inconspicuous area...might give that a try...kpc

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Joe Brix

Always curious about PVC

venting. Don't you think that a 3 or 4" flex stainless steel liner would also be OK to use? While acidic, isn't there a stainless that's resistant to it?

Guy_6

Stainless

Speaking as a manufacturer, Joe, I can say that the stainless idea is a good one BUT it is not covered by the approvals on the boiler. Would it work? Probably. IF it should fail, it would be within the chimney, so the risk of flue gasses entering the building would be tiny. The problem there is that no one would know of the break, and eventually the condensate laden flue gasses would deteriorate the masonry.

Using something other than what is spec'd in the manual would require getting more testing done $$, new approval documents$$ and so on. If someone were to use it, they are taking all of the liability onto themselves. Because the standard PVC venting works out 99% of the time, it is simply not worth the MFG going to the extra expense (which eventually goes into your cost) of exploring different options.

There is flexible PVC, but IT hasn't been approved for venting yet, so here we sit.

Mitch_6

Whats the make of the boiler

Just did an ultra 310 went out a window at grade then up 7'6" to clear mass code. Contractor built an insulated box around it and tied it in nice to match the two adjacent bow windows.

Weil Mclain themselves came up with the idea and blessing.

P.s. We kept the widow area open into the box to gather heat from the cellar. All the exterior is sealed.

Mitch S.

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EBEBRATT-Ed

I have wondered about this myself as I plan to install a "Knight" in my own house and am faced with the same problem.

Can you penetrate the celler wall below grade with the flue pipe and then elbow up the side of the building?? I have been trying to get an answer on this myself.


Ed

JackFre

Not on the topic, but on the customer

Sorry for your problem. I have had the same type problem with people in the past. As mechanics we can "draw pictures" in our heads. We can "see it". Frequently "they" cannot. Their minds just don't work that way. As a result you end up getting buried due to the "mis" or lack of understanding. It is worth doing an external mock-up for people to just CYA. Also, if an architect is involved in the project, have the owner invite comment before proceeding. Tedious, yes, but my experience is that you cannot please them unless it is their idea, which you at least get a chance to plant.

Bob Harper

not approved for ALL boilers?

AL29-4C has been around awhile with a pretty good track record--better than PVC I would guess. I wonder why a boiler mfr. would not test and list their system for AL29-4C, which would open them up to many more applications than they have currently. I find boilers every day that are oversized for the available flue yet twin liners for a condensing boiler and water heater could fit co-linear. If you have liners listed to UL 1738, that should suffice. I understand quite well the importance of testing and listing the vent system as well as the costs of listing. I just don't understand why the mfrs. have turned their backs on this option as the payback should cover the cost of testing and listing with far more units sold.

Bob Sweet

At a certain point it comes down to money

alot of the heavy hitter manuf. of cond. boilers as well as continuos flow water heaters have developed a proprietary vent sytem that has to be used with their particular product. This adds to the bottom line and keeps exclusivity to their product. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the proper operation of the equipment, as it has to do with getting the most bang for the buck.

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Tombig_2

W-M Termination

Wayne, Weil McLain ships a darn attractive sidewall termination with their Ultra boilers. I used it in the exact same situation. Got no pics but heres the pdf..pg. 10

http://www.weil-mclain.com/FTP/Ultra 310/UltraVent.pdf

Hope this helps, Tom G.