Attn: New York Plumbing & Heating Tradesmen

Radiant Wizard

Needed a catchy subject to get your attention.

I recently moved to the Orange County, NY market from the NEw England market and I am currently working for a plumbing and heating wholesaler doing sales and radiant design. I've been here for over a month now and I was surprised to find that PEX and 3-Pass Boilers are pretty much not used in this market. The market I just came from I would say that 80 percent of the new construction domestic potable plumbing is installed with PEX along with 60 percent of the baseboard installations are also installed with PEX. 3-Pass Boilers are installed maybe not as much as pin-typed boilers but they are very regular.

I guess my question is. Why is this market so far behind the NE market? Is this becuase the products are not offered? Are the products to expensive? Have you not been approached with the products or offered some type of classes or certification? If you were able to purchase a 3-pass boiler at the price point of a pin-type boiler would you?

Like I said I am new to this market and any information or thoughts are very appreciated. Thank You

techheat_2

McMansions are sold

by more Sq/ft and kitchens and baths,not to mention the obligatory wrap around porch,not HVAC systems. It's amazing to go into 800k houses with steel boilers and tankless coils. The upper end equipment is in the 2M and up category and the older retrofits

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Robert O'Connor_3

A few things

Plastic lines for pottable is not code for many areas.
3 pass boilers are usually oil, not big in new construction where every builder wants cheap hot air gas furnace with AC.
Even in the replacement world, no one wants to give up more basement real estate for an indirect and a 3-pass which will take up more floor space (most are long, not tall) with it's rear flue over a verticle tube boiler with tankless coil. I just watched 2 of my neighbors do the identical replacement this winter probably because that's what their oil company pushes and can replace in one day for the lowest cost. I was spec'ing a 3-pass for my own boiler replacement, but have decided on a low mass steel boiler because of the compact size when mated up to an indirect tank so it won't eat up my precious basement floor space.

Radiant Wizard

Plastic Code

Wirsbo has a state approval for the State of New York. Maybe it's the inspector doesn't know what he is looking at. I've been through all these objections in the past. If you'd like I'll get the approval letter for you that you can give to your inspector.

Nick W

State approval

Also, the state approval doesn't work for NYC code.

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Mark Hunt

That's because


they're all in the mob!!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!

Just kidding!

Hi John!

Mark H

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Nick W

Oh!

You talkin' to me?

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Jared M

I think

you may be talking to the wrong customers. We sell three pass boilers but I will admit that most of the market is cheap pin ttype boilers around here. As far as PEX goes, it is only a short few years ago that PEX became legal in NY State for domestic hot and cold water. It remains illegal for commercial plumbing. We have started using PEX for baseboard distribution within the last year or so.

So, who are you working for. I am a contractor up the road in Kingston...Ulster County.

-JaredM

Big Ed

Forgetaboutit !

masterplumb

local code

local code supercedes state code. NYS just sets the minimums, the local municipality can make it more stringent. We still have municipalities that do not allow pvc or even push gaskets for bell and spigot. Chris

todd s

Behind the times

As an Orange County native I can say that while we have the best Chopper motorcycles, we are in general behind with the PHC equipment. The tract home builders are not interested in offering a boiler or A/C upgrade. What I believe is the biggest problem with the pex tubing is the proprietary tubing and fitting methods. How do you handle a customer with Brand B fittings and tubing when we use Brand A? Do we have to call around looking for that brand? Should we have to go buy a special expander/crimper just for the occasion that we may need a connection or two? How do you know what brands are cross compatible when the manufacturers insist on their package? The running around for the fittings and the lack of IN STOCK TODAY by most suppliers. Just in time delivery(tommorrow) isn't good enough in this type of work. As far as pex goes I love it and we use it(wirsbo) the main reason being is there are three suppliers nearby with it and Wirsbo has a complete line of a quality product. We also use Buderus boilers. Now if you want a good marketing idea, why don't you have "runners" like auto parts stores? p.s. Welcome to the beautiful Hudson Valley.

hvacsale

Pex tube and fittings

You are so right regarding different tubing! I don't understand why every manufacturer has to have their own proprietary fitting. Pex in the US is supposed to conform to the same standards, whether PEX a,b,c. I am sick of every company wanting you to buy their special tool for their special fitting to only use on their tubing. Every company says there is no warranty if you don't use their fittings.....but really, if you get a leak on a copper joint is it covered by the tube manufacturer? If I get a leaking glue joint is Hercules going to come to the rescue?

What if copper was like that? Have you ever cared or bothered to find out the difference between one copper pipe and another? How about schedule 40 PVC? Is anyone going to believe that you have to use Charlotte fittings for Charlotte pipe?

It's as frustrating as the mess that CSST is in with each manufacturer requiring a seperate certification for their fitting.

Wouldn't life be so much easier if you bought the Pex you wanted and used the fitting that you wanted. But maybe that's just me thinking that national standards can be a good idea.