continuous circulation = no setback?

R. Kalia

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water will be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. Ths sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

R. Kalia

do i understand correctly?

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water will be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. Ths sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

R. Kalia

do i understand correctly?

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water will be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. Ths sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

R. Kalia

do i understand correctly?

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water will be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. Ths sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

R. Kalia

do I understand correctly?

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water will be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. Ths sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

R. Kalia

do I understand correctly?

1) Do I guess correctly that if I manage to adjust the reset curve so that water is just warm enough to maintain the indoor temperature, i.e. for near-constant circulation during non-setback periods, then I will have to give up having any setback periods (since the water won't be able to heat the house back up within a reasonable time)? Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees.

2) I have also been reading the Tekmar manuals, and some of their reset controller models have indoor temp sensor input and can boost the water temperature temporarily if it's cooler than 70 inside, for example during recovery. But most of their controllers don't have this feature, and built-in reset controllers such as on WM Ultra, Trinity etc don't use indoor sensors either. This sounds to me (an amateur) like a great feature; if it is, why isn't it a standard feature?

One disadvanatge I see is that there will be a range of outdoor temperatures when the water can normally be cool enough to allow condensing, but boosting it for recovery will push it above 130, which means the efficiency drops, cancelling out the savings due to setback. But the main point of setback is comfort, not savings.

Weezbo

control stradegy is the KEY!

here is a thought....boiler guys likey to do thier own wireing lay outs,or have an electrical /plumber who lets it sink in between the ears the first time to work with. thats why we have unlimited licences. and like any proffession specific things people specialize in like the medical and sciences. re inventing the wheel is an expensive and time consuming project . it is done every day. or perhaps it is possible to find some fringe area the perponderance has missed with independent thinking. so in a nut shell,...do your own THINKING and find someone who understands control stradgey.it really is That simple.

Ted_5

Viessmann controls

can do all of that. Outdoor reset,night setback, room sensor. Check it out!

Ted

Weezbo

viessman

ScottMP

RPG

" Even now, with 180F water, it can take our house a couple of hours to recover 6 degrees. "

May I suggest that you may have insufficient emmiters to heat your home. At 180 degrees no hime should take that long to recover. My home and many of my customers home have outdoor reset with no problem recoverying.

Actuall Buderus has an interesting design for set back. They do a parrel shift of the curve at night so that the water temp is never high enough to satisfy the house and drops the temp. Constant circulation but never at a temp. high enought reach set point.

Scott


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

R. Kalia

when my ship comes in...

I have been told that if I have to ask what a Viessmann costs, I can't afford it.

So I have never asked. And specific prices are not supposed to be discussed here.

But maybe someone could give me a general idea of what a typical Vitodens WB2 6-24 installation might cost. For comparison, just to give a sense of the complexity of the installation, I have quotes for cast-iron at about $4K and for Pinnacle with Tekmar at about $6K.

Unknown

It's not a standard feature on all Tekmar controls, IMO, because not enough people understand how great the feature is, and thus are not willing to pay a few hundred dollars more for the ultimate blend of minimal water temps and fastest possible response times, and they use the outdoor-reset only models. We use indoor and outdoor reset on *almost* every job we do.

I would agree with another poster though that if 180 degree water... which is higher than anything you should be running in any properly designed radiant system, assuming that's what you have... can't recover heat fast enough, then you're in trouble and it's not water temperature that is your problem.
_______________________________
Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC

Robert Brown, Co-Owner, RPA certified Radiant Designer

207.899.2328
NRT@maine.rr.com

Bob_9

RPZ,
To accomplish everything you're looking for you can't afford to not look at the Viessmann products. Sure you can combine someones boiler with someone elses controls and get the job done but, Viessmann has this control licked.
Bob

R. Kalia

\"can't afford not to\"?

But can I afford to look at Viessmann products? I am afraid to call a Viessmann contractor. Maybe you could give me a sense of the price range, maybe it's not as bad as I think.

R. Kalia

radiant system? no

> would agree with another poster though that if

> 180 degree water... which is higher than anything

> you should be running in any properly designed

> radiant system, assuming that's what you have...


No, radiators and baseboard. And on a sub-zero day (design is 0 degrees here), the circulator runs maybe 13 hrs in a 24 hr period (as shown on the thermostat) so there is more than enough radiation. But recovery after setback is s-l-o-w.

R. Kalia

recovery

With 180* water, recovering 6 deg should not take more than 10-15 min.

Viessmanns will cost $10,000 and up. Get a Munchkin, $6K is a good price.