tjerlund hs1 problems

ScottMP

Power venters ??

We have had three power venters have problems with the UC1 boards. We have had intermittent problems on one and no heat on another. I don't know if anyone remembers, but we had a real nusance call on a job with four boilers using a MAC4 which went thru the UC1 board. Took about six hours to figure out that one.

Now we have had another two. Whats up with that ????

Scott




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Jed_2

UC1

Yes, we have been having numerous problems with these units. Not limited to the ss2 or ss1. I sold an HS1 last week on a Smith GB100-W8. Contractor couldn't get the boiler to fire. He called MN, and after an onsite troubleshoot telecon, he was advised it was the Primary control. He drove 40 miles to get a Fenwal replacement, I told him to take a replacement circuit board just in case. Guess what? he found that it was the UC1 circuit board(version 3.04 I might add), and all is working fine now. We have had way too many of these circuit boards replaced. I think Jack Frederick ought to weigh in on this one. I have another complete SS2 and a couple more boards come back since his last visit(2 weeks ago).


troubled,

Jed

Weezbo

these can sometimes be a bit of a hassel with some primaries and controls with the same features buh diffrent run times...thats what the dip switches are for .

Jed_2

If there ain't Power

at 4, it ain't gonna work: Period.

Jed

J.C.A._3

O.K., Let's clarify the findings.

I came in, climbed the latter(this puppy is 10' in the air!) pulled the cover on the UC1 to find #5(120v led)lit. Also found the #1 led, amber, lit, which is a call for heat. Burner off, setpoint control calling for hot water.No green lights (2&3 showing draft proving or burner running).

To be fair, a call placed to Tjernlund explaining the situation, and all the tests I've done was answered with 1 question. What is the number on the lower relay on the board?. I didn't have that, but will get it and make the call tomorrow. I was hearing a strange "clicking" coming from one of the 2 relays in the UC1 box, but couldn't really determine which one it was, as it was intermittent and changing pace, sometimes fast, sometimes only every 2-4 seconds.

There were a "batch of bad boards"that I was informed of a month, or so ago. I don't know how they were determined to be bad or not, but the supplier had A replacement on the shelf and just asked me to fill out a "warranty tag" and bring it back.

If this is the case, I think Tjernlund should step up to the plate and let us know. We install lots of their product, but if they're holding something that we need to know back, I don't have a problem using another product. I'm sure most here will feel the same way, but we need to let them know.

Yes!, I triple checked the wiring, took all the readings, cleaned the proving tube and made sure the "dip switches" were all set to the appropiate positions. I even shortened the "post purge" time I programmed, to make sure it was working properly. (yes it did!) Chris

Jed_2

Sorry, Chris

there is no #5 on the UC1, unless your counting up 1 from the #4 terminal(it's the line power source to the board,huh?). IF THERE AIN'T POWER AT 4, IT AIN'T GONNA WORK.

J.C.A._3

The 2 UC1 controls....

I've seen and installed in the last couple months MOST DEFINATELY have 5 leds on the display.#1 Amber,(call for heat) #'s 2&3(burner status) green, #'s 4&5 red( present fan status).

#'s 4&5 will tell if the unit is in pre or post purge by flashing in the proper sequence.(trust me...I was both looking at the manual, and reading them just this afternoon).I have no reason to lie , I'm just stating the facts. Go to Tjernlund' web site and try to download the manuals. I tried this afternoon and it was not feeding me the PDF files that I wanted. Chris

Rocky

Is that you, Wild Bill?

Are you going by the name of Weezbo? Just curious as I only know one guy who pronounces it "Weezbo".
Rocky

joe_14

power ventor


i had some problems also. rep said they did have some board problems also if using boiler and carlin or honeywell primary. wire the power venter out of b1 then come off your approve term. to your primary. this will avoids nussance lockouts. also the rep. said to deactivate switch #9 this has caused many problem in high wind areas. they are shipping there new boards with this switch deactivated.

good luck joe g.

clammy

tjernund power venters

I replaced a unit 2 months ago motor was burned and building owner by passed some of the wiring on the unit removing the vacume switch .I replaced the unit and the new one came with a remote contrlol board instead of being mounted to the fan assembly had no promblem ran great cycled perfect i have installed them in the past where the board was mounted on the fan assem and found them a pain in the a#$ with the remote board it was a breez and i believe that mounted seperatly could do nothing but good exposing any control to excessive heat could not be a good thing.I love when peolpe conplain about the cost of these thing i laugh if you think that expensive image the cost of a real chimmey good luck and peace

ScottMP

The last two we installed

Were the remote board and we still had to replace the it.

I am concerned about #9 being disconnected. Dos'nt that prove if theres is draft and the fan is operating properly ? I would think that would be a big safty issiue and disconnecting it would dangerous ?

Scott

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J.C.A._3

Manual says....(I finally got through!)

#9 dip switch is to make sure the draft proving switch is in the open position on startup. It IS possible for the switch to be "proved" in high wind condition.In this situation, the burner would NOT get the signal from the UC1 to fire.

The instruction doesn't come right out and say the "you will see this display on the led panel, if this is the case". That was the real point of the question. When I'm looking at a call for heat(amber light/led#1) and have a steady red on #5(120V present), and the fan isn't running, obviously the burner wasn't either, but no fault signal and no notations in the instructions, how am I supposed to make a decision?

After shutting the main switch for the system off for 20 seconds, everything fires up as if nothing ever happened. Like I said, I checked the wiring 3 times and everything else is/was working "normal" after shutting off the switch for a few seconds. The clicking sounds I heard from the UC1 were intermittant, and the factory tech asked me to get a number off of it, (sorry, didn't have time today to get back there, but there wasn't a no heat/hot water call either) Seems to me to be something that's hapenning once in a while, and I'm just asking for some input from the field. Do you guys run across this often? Is it just a "one off problem" ,or something that should be addressed? Chris

joe_14

board


sounds like you have a board problem.if you have to turn switch off then on its a board problem. did you check the memory to see what the last fault was.


good luck joeg.

Chris Messerschmidt

Answers from Tjernlund Products, Inc. Techs!

We read with interest your posts related to the UC1 control. The initial boards (identified by having no sticker or a sticker with 2.04 on the top of one of the black relays) could cause a nuisance tripping of the burner control circuit that they were wired in series with. Typical scenarios causing these problems included voltage fluctuations, short cycle activation, and pre-purge timing that could exceed the typical 15-second primary control lockout. If you encounter problems with a board identified above we will be happy to send out a no charge replacement. The circuit boards easily snap out and back on.

UC1 boards identified by having a white sticker with 3.04 on top of one of the black relays are the current version. We have well in excess of 25,000 of these boards in service. As with any product in use at that quantity there will be some mechanical failures of the circuit boards. These include loose or broken terminals, micro cracks in the circuit board, or a bad mechanical relay. We are extremely interested in getting problem 3.04 circuit boards back for analysis. It is very important for us to get specific details relating to the installation and any perceived or witnessed operation problems. A specific Returned Goods Authorization number should be issued so that we can match your observations with the exact circuit board.

The following is applicable to 3.04 boards only:

The last fault code that occurred can be retrieved by flipping dip switches 1-8 in the up/on position. All fault codes relate to the fan prover switch circuit and are displayed by counting the number of times that the number four (red) LED blinks.

Twice: The prover switch circuit was closed prior to the venter operating.
Causes include: Prover switch contacts welded, jumpered, or stuck closed. Specific to the SS1 series we have found out that high winds parallel to the vent terminus can cause the low set point pressure switch (-0.03 to –0.05” w.c.) to make without the venter operating. The aspiration affect of the high winds can create enough pull to cause a natural draft. In January of 2004 we deactivated the number 9 dip switch that controls this pre-cycle check to avoid the potential for nuisance lock outs in SS1 series vent systems. Because of their higher pressure switch set points the models SS2 and HS1 are not affected by cross winds so we have chosen to keep the pre-cycle prover switch check activated from the factory. If you have an SS1 in the field that has this fault code we encourage you to deactivate the number 9 dip switch by pushing it up/on. This does not deactivate the fan proving switch during a heating cycle. In addition the model SS1 incorporates a high limit that acts as a back-up to the fan proving switch.

Three times: The fan prover safety circuit did not close within 60 seconds for the call for heat.
Causes include: Venter motor is bad, high limit is open (models SS1 & SS2) adjust post purge for longer operation, sensing tube connections are loose or flexible tubing has a hole or slit (model SS2). Bad venter motor relay or bad prover switch relay.

Four times: The fan prover opened during the burner cycle and never closed within the 10 minute time period that the venter kept operating.
Causes include: Exceeding the capacity of the venter, flue gas temperatures that are too high, damper or cone maladjustment. With higher pump pressures ( 140-160 PSI) we have seen cases where the firing rate starts to exceed the capacity of the SS2 series if the nozzle is selected based on a lower pump pressure. Firing rates exceeding 142,000 BTU/hr. input but less than 168,000 BTU/hr. input require that the burner be tuned and operated at higher than typical CO2 levels.

Five times: The fan prover opened for more that 10 seconds but closed within the 10 minute window that the venter kept operating.
Causes include: High winds and/or, high flue gas temperatures combined with firing near the top end capacity of the venter.

We have added three diagrams to our instructions that interlock the venter prior to the primary control. By interlocking prior to the primary control and not with the traditional “orange” of the primary a number of positive benefits are obtained. They can be downloaded at www.tjernlund.com, instruction download, X.04 versions.
1. None of the faults will cause the primary control to trip since we are only disrupting the call signal from the thermostat or aquastat.
2. It’s much easier to determine if the problem is with the venter or the primary control/burner.

The 3.04 series UC1 circuit boards have proven to be extremely solid. Anything mechanical/electrical can go bad but we have had very few defects considering the volume of product in the field.

Please feel free to call our technical service department at 800-255-4208 should you have questions or problems.

Weezbo

Rocky !:))) Eh...Hmmm... Caught me fornicating with the Minds:)

SO we have a momment where none of them can catch up to us:)))))

J.C.A._3

Chris,

Thanks for an outstanding explaination and being a "stand up" Tech.

I replaced the board yesterday, and it did have the 2.04 sticker on the lower relay,(leds on top). I will call on Monday to get a #from you, and instructions for any other info you need.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate. Chris

roger provencher

hs1 w/uc1 board

recently had a job 35 miles out, replaced the complete unit,old unit worn out and had to return that evening for a no heat, bypassed the board and returned the next day with a new board and still did not work, the wiring is not rocket science??? so called tech support they were nice enough, had them on the phone for about an hour,kept losing the cell phone signal, just what I needed, the last words that I had from tech support was "I don't know what to tell you" it should be working! I had the old timer relay from the old unit, took out the uc1 board and wired in the old timer ,have not been back>>> so I lost the best part of three days, 4 - 70 mile round trips and all I get is I don't know what to tell you, something is wrong with this picture,

jgold723

Short Cycling

We have a recently installed tjerlund hs1 which has been short-cycling ever since it was installed. (burner runs for a few seconds, shuts off, then burns again and repeats this process)



I'm not a boiler tech, but this doesn't seem to be the way it should run.



I've read the manual the technician left behind and I've read these posts and as far as I can tell everything is is functioning normally (diagnostic leds appear OK, no flashing reds, etc.)



Watching the boiler's operation, I noticed that when the burner comes on, I see the #2 led blink briefly and I hear a relay click in the UC1 box.



I've tried opening windows in the basement to increase the amount of combustion air, as the manual suggested that might cause short-cycling -- no luck.



I plan to call the tech back to look at this, but I'd like to know if there's anything should have him look at related to this.



Thanks,



John