zone valves vs. circulators

marco_4

I'm replacing mom's boiler. She wants to know what is preferred, zone valves or circulators. I told her I'd give her a printout of your answers. Also, I like the taco ifc's, have there been problems? Can the 007 motor be used as a replacement for the ifc, or do I need to carry both?
Gracias,
Marco

Ken_8

Both are somewhat interchangeable..

Except in very small zones or very large ones.

Very large zones may be better served by dedicated circulators - but cost more because of the relay required (built in or free standing), plus the flow check, plus the pump, plus the 14 gage minimum Greenfield wiring connects.

Zone valves and a flat curved pump (like a B&G S-100) is usually my first choice.

But then, what do I know? I'v only been doing this for 40+ years...

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marco_4

you've got 30 on me. anyway my question pertains mostly to reliability. I've replaced far more zone valves than circulators, but that's just my experience. Money not being an object, what would you put in your house? (besides a harem.)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Proportional flow control devices that eliminate the need for either!

Big Ed

Circulators but depends

Depends on the system and house.I would most always use circulators and flow valves on normal house. Some zones need a dedicated circulator , like a mono flow ,indirect or radiant loop.....It comes down to a house with what I would say is miro zoned, that I would start adding zonevalves on some of the circulator branches...

Example: A 80's contemporary with baseboard heat(not one box ), lots of additions and levels. Additions are treated like a separate structure and need to be zoned, levels as well. Here you can have 10' of baseboard on one zone. On jobs like this I would start to break from the all circulators and start to add zonevalves .




It does not have to that extreme .. What type of house and system do you have?

Ken_8

Marco,

> you've got 30 on me. anyway my question pertains

> mostly to reliability. I've replaced far more

> zone valves than circulators, but that's just my

> experience. Money not being an object, what would

> you put in your house? (besides a harem.)





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marco_4

it's just a two zone (up & down) plus a superstor. Mom will shop for 8 months to replace a bad kitchen faucet,
but i don't want to wait that long on the boiler. Its leaking pretty good and this is my slow time. I'm not looking for any complicated answers, I just need to tip this decision one way or the other. For my money i would use circulators- more$ up front, but i believe they are more reliable. i would either use taco 007 ifc's or honeywell zone valves. I'm just one heating guy asking you other heating guys for help! If it were your mom i'd do the same for you!!

techheat_2

I prefer

Zone valves wherever possible. Makes a more compact and neater install, reliability is a red herring I've changed many circs as well as zone valves. Primarily it's personal preference,whatever you are most comfortable with. My Mom has 3 zones with zone valves installed in 1988 and still going strong.

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Big Ed

Cost

I don't really find zone valves being that much cheaper...I figure it costs in parts $150 per zone with circulators (relay,007,flowvalve and miss fittings) . And $110 per zone with zonevalves(one 007circ, flowvalve& transformer per 3 zonevalves + miss fittings)... Closer in price if you want priority for the indirect.. Of course there's more labor in circulators , but this is Mom's boiler....You owe Her !

Steve_39

zone valve v.s. circulators

Marco, the biggest question functional question is how many gpms are required per zone. Given that 1 gpm at 20 degree delta T delivers 10,000 btu, you could run a manual J on each zone to determine required heat then add friction loss for pipe, fittings in each zone. Most often a primary circulator with zone valves provides the proper gpm required per zone, and zoning with circulators in a private residence is usually overkill.

Fact is, if you zone with circulators, whether IFC's or not you will probably be moving more water than necessary for the job and using a bit more electricity to move the additional water. You are also unlikely to have any other problems than that, just make sure you protect the boiler from cold shock. It sounds like you want to use circulators and that's the other important factor......the style you like is probably the best for you. If you are worried about zone valves and more comfortable with circulators then let your "comfort system" have the components you are comfortable with.

Be nice to your mom, she deserves it!
Steve

Steve_35

Cost

Why do you have a flow valve (flow check?) if you have a single circ? BTW, we use a $6 24v relay to prioritize the indirect.

For us on a 3 zone system the savings is 3 relays, 3 flow checks (except we use zone valves for flow checks. I hate flow checks.), 2 pair of circ isolation flanges, 2 circs and wiring for 2 circs. Then we use 3 zone valves and a transformer. Except like I said we're using zone valves in either case.

Joe Mattiello

Taco zonevalves/circulators

Good Afternoon
This is a rhetorical question. Both will work just fine. However, there are some considerations you should be aware of, before selecting the components used in the system. If you have a multizone system, and you want to use zonevalves, you need to know that the hydraulic characteristics of a multizone system changes. With one zone open, the system operates as if it were a single circuit. Since a larger pump is used to satisfy the whole system requirement, you may experience noticeable flow noises. When zoning with circulators, the circulators are sized for the individual loop. Cost of installing circulators has been reduced because of the IFC (integral flow check), that facilitates the installation, and eliminates the external check. Another bonus is the improvement of performance, because you do not have that huge pressure drop through the external check valve. Additionally, if you have valves and a valve fails ( not a Taco valve of course) you can use the bypass lever standard on 570 series valve to induce flow through that zone. If a circulator fails, you can still heat the home with the other circulators. Conclusion: valves, or circulators? It's your personal discretion.


Joe Mattiello
Technical Services
(401)942-8000 ext.484
Fax (401) 942-2360
joemat@taco-hvac.com

jim sokolovic

That's a nice presentation...

of all the variables to consider, Joe.

Big Ed

Flow Valve

When pumping away you should install the zone valves on the return, this will leave the supply piping wide open....

Why do you hate flow valves ? Maybe I could help...

c-rex

Erie makes a nice ZV, inverted flair fittings for a body change out,(rare) and a nice "pop top" operator for a real time saving swap on failure( also rare) From what's been described, this would be a resonable choice, and , for what it's worth, I did it for my mom. So, from one heating guy to another.....

c-rex

Erie makes a nice ZV, inverted flair fittings for a body change out,(rare) and a nice "pop top" operator for a real time saving swap on failure( also rare) From what's been described, this would be a resonable choice, and , for what it's worth, I did it for my mom. So, from one heating guy to another.....

RELY

Taco

Both Cirs and ZV will do the job you are looking for, its a matter of style.What I have seen that I like is the new Tace line from feeder to multi zone or cir contols. When done with the boiler job it looks good and it is functional.Check out the esp valve or the I series and zone control boards this is all I use.I try to keep it simple and you should to.If it breaks you need to be able to replace it by the next working day no special orders

Steve_35

Flow Valve

Flow checks seem to often be a source of noise, ghost flows and just general problems. That's why even on a system with circs we install zone valves as flow checks.

BTW, we always use Taco zone valves so I haven't seen a need to dictate which side of the loop to place them. FWIU, with fast closing zone valves you want to install them on the return side to help redue the possibility of hammering when the valve closes and the circ is still running. Any other reason to install them on the return?

Big Ed

Flowvalves

On small heating pipes 1/2"-11/4" You want to bump up one size from the pipe when selecting a flow valve. With the big supplies you want to bump down a size .

With pumping away set up, Ghost flows are created with haphazard return connections . Key.....With a parallel system always connect the returns to a single pipe before connecting to the boiler return.

Some loops have enough lift that they need two flow valves...

Most bypassing is caused by dirt collecting on the seat , weight &stem.All they need is to be cleaned.

Never use or be very carefull using teflon tape with a flowvalve.It could foal them up.

Why I perfer a flow valve..... A flow valve is one of them simple machines that lasts for ever...I also work within a contract company