pilot vs pilotless

Jim_44

Please let me know what you gentlemen think about pilot vs pilotless ignition on a gas fired boiler for a residential home. I am talking about the Burnham boilers in particular. An old salt told me there are less problems with a pilot because it prevents condensation on the boiler parts and it helps with the flue gases going up the chimney. Is this true? Do you shut down the pilot during the off season?

Also can you install cast iron and copper fin tubing on the same zone? I was told you shouldn't mix them. If they can't be mixed what are my options?

Thank you for your advice. JIM

Earthfire

two parts

First part answer is it depends. What is you application, how are you venting etc.? The second part is easier. Use zoning to seperate the fin tube from the castiron loops. but only if they don't serve the same area. Trying to run fintube on one side of say a great room and cast iron on the other will drive you nuts trying to control it.

Jim_44

Earthfire, the boiler will be the Burnham series 2 with natural draft. It will be used for a 3 or 4 zone hydronic system. A seperate zone to make hot water will not be used so this boiler will not be used during the non-heating season. Jim

Earthfire

choice

If you have any dampness in your basement, &/or if you have an older wiring system without adequate grounding I would go with the standing pilot and not shut the pilot down in the off season. To me those two conditions point away from electronic ignition. Otherwise I would go with electronic ignition as I feel that standing pilot will in the useful life of that boiler become obsolete and retrofitting the boiler in the future will be more expensive then maintaining the electronic sytem that will be in place. I would also recommend an indirect waterheater for the house.

Jim_44

Earthfire thanks for the info.
I have one of those conditions. My basement does get damp during the summer and I am forced to use a dehumidifier to remove moisture. My wiring is new and up to date.
I have a tankless waterheater for two months now and so far so good. If it goes down the road I might consider putting in an indirect providing I oversize my boiler now.
Thanks Jim

scrook_2

but...

isn't a standing pilot going to contribute *more* moisture from combustion than the slight reduction in *relative* humidity from the slightly increased firebox temperatures, as well as having only a trivial if any measurable effect on chimney temperature and startup draft making the choice moot?

If an indirect hot water heater was added the boiler could be run warm start eliminating the moisture issue entirely if it is truely an issue. Dehumidification and or ventilation of the cellar may be desirable regardless.

[Deleted User]

ahhh

The thing is that while there is humidity in the combustion of gas, the higher temp fromthe pilot will stop the humidity from condensing on the jacket and will leave the structure via natural draft. In addition, the higher temp from the pilot will actually absorb some of the moisture.

scrook_2

but is

the additional heat enough to more than offset the added moisture of combustion and the moisture carried in with the pilot's combustion air?

Boilerpro_3

My experience has been Yes

Nearly all of my installs have been standing pilot and they never have any rust in the combustion chamber. All of the elctronic ignition units have rust regularly. I have found standing pilot combined with a stack damper keeps most smaller boilers(like the Burnham 2 series) around 120F or more when the system is not running... all summer long. Its pretty hard to condense on the cast iron heat exchangers when it this warm. Remember rust acts as an insulator and the rustier the exchanger the poorer your heat transfer and the more heat goes up the chimney or out the wall. IMHO pilots don't waste gas, they save by keeping the boiler clean and efficient for much longer than electronic ignition can.

Oh, and in regards to mixing cast iron and fine tube. Yes it tends to be a little better to separate them their own zones. However, on systems where water circulation is constant, all of the heating units stay at nearly the same temp, so zoning is really not necessary. Just be carefull with your system layout. I have installed fin tube on many standing radiation single zone converted gravity systems and it works fine.

Boilerpro

Unknown

Dave

The older models of the Series 2 prior to the early to mid 1990's incorporated a rather large pilot assembly that could have indeed kept the boiler at 120°F if equipped with a vent damper. This is no longer the case though. This boiler utilizes with nearly 1/3 the btuh capacity now and should not be generating enough heat to keep the boiler at or near 120°F.

If the basement is equipped with a properly sized dehumidifier, the use of a pilot model vs. EI model should make little difference. Both types are more than dependable and repair components are readily available. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

Jim Eastman

Standing pilot vs. intermittent pilot

When I installed a new Buderus boiler in my own home three years ago, I went with the standing pilot. As a service technician, I see how much ignition modules, hot surface ignitors, and automatic vent dampers cost to replace and the inconvenience and down time associated with these components' failures. The few dollars of natural gas "wasted" on pilot operation per year pales compared to the down time, hassel, and expense of replacing these components when they fail!

Jim Eastman
Precision Plumbing
Boulder, CO

hr

I've noticed

standing pilots keep the bugs at bay! We have these small spiders, around Missouri, that like to build in burners and pilot hoods, during the summer, for whatever reason

Standing pilots seem to frighten them away, reduces winter start up calls when the flame burns back and kicks the roll out switch!

I agree today's tiny pilot flame probably don't do a lot for boiler "protection" Not much more tham a match flame on some pilot burners, anymore.

Don't be fooled into thinking SP are less call backs. It gets very windy here in the spring. I get a fair amount of pilot outages from certain wind conditions. Sometimes from the flue, and sometimes from nearby combustion air vents.

hot rod

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