Looking for new boiler....

Philip Nasadowski

I'm a homeowner, so go easy on me guys :)

Basically, our 30 year old Rudd (Yep) has hit the end of it's useful life, and we've decided it's time to upgrade.

The system is probbably quite conventional for a home built in the late 60's - baseboard, two circulators, gas. The circulators are two trusty B&G 100s, one's fairly new, the other's had it's motor replaced, but the pump portion I believe it origional to the home (or close to it - oddly , the pump body's silver, the motor's black. They're not all red?)

I believe the I=B=R net was listed as 125,000 BTUs. I can get the exact numbers though.

The two circulators each feed a zone. Interestingly, and I believe this was origional - they pump down into the boiler, as opposed to pumping up and away. The expansion tank (diaphriagm) located on the outlet side, but the fill line's located right before one pump (this has to be a bad location).

Electrically, the boiler's internal guts ontrol one circulator, the other's controlled by a honeywell relay/transformer (R845A, I think) on the side of the boiler.

We're pretty sure on what's going to be changed with the new install - relocate the fill, change to pump away from the boiler, add a low water cutout, and replace the occasionally flakey Honeywell box. There's two flo-controls that have been problem points in the past, and those are going to be replaced too.

The change out is gonna be pretty easy for us, since beyond possibly flipping the cirulators, we're not expecting to change much else.

Oh yes, we already have a CO detector in the area, and a smoke alarm (my dad's ex NYFD). We've not encountered any CO problems with the current setup, and we check the airflow regularly, along with the pressure valve, etc.

We're just stuck on one thing - the boiler. We've decided on a traditional, non condensing, non power vented type, but we're not sure on who's a good manufacturer. We're stuck between Weil-McLain, and Burnham. I'm leaning towards the latter on account of non gasketed boiler design, but beyond that, we're not sure if we've narrowed down to the two good choices, or if there's other stuff we should look at.

The trouble is, they all seem to be the same and none really stand out :(

Oh yes, just how long can a B&G 100 last, anyway? I've seen a few at friends houses that look downright ancient...

Thanks! :)

Big Ed

Outdoor reset

The B&G's could last for decades if you oil the bearings but do't over oil the motor. Soulds like you may have a couple of Watt's flow valve??? They would chatter if air was lodged in it's bonnet . If you had over heating problems maybe they were too small...

I don't like the o-ring between the sections either.

I would recommend a outdoor reset for added eff and comfort....

Mark Eatherton1

Burnhams a good boiler..

so is Buderus (http://www.buderus.net).

More importantly, make sure the contractor knows what HE's doing. Sounds like you know more than most contractors out there. You could drop to one pump, pumping away, and control the zones with inexpensive zone valves.

Have you considered adding DHW funtion tothe boiler? It will save energy versus the typical 40-50 galon stand alone gas fired tank.

You might as well get more bang (hot water) for your buck!

ME

Mark Hunt

Phil


The boilers you mentioned are both good products.

My question to you is this.

Why would you pay good money for a 1950's heating system?

Take a look around your house. Do you have any of the following items?
VCR?
DVD?
Cordless phone?
Micro-wave?
Color TV?
Cable or satellite dish?


The rest of the house is up to date, so why keep the heating system in the '50's?

Just curious.

Mark H

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Joe_13

With Gas prices going up

I would at least look at high efficency with out all the expensive modulating stuff: Burnham Revolution or Dunkirk Quantum. You're gonna have to have the chimmney lined anyway so get the basic condensing boiler with sealed combustion.

Philip Nasadowski

Well, I think the main motivation to retaining 2 circulators is that, well, it's been there, it's running fine. We tossed the idea of zone valves around, but that would mean buying 2 zone valves, and we've already got 2 working circulators in the system. I'm not sure if there's any real advantage to zone valves - it's just a 2 zone system and we're going to keep it that way. I could see it if we had 3 or 4 zones, though. We're just a (somewhat) small 1 story house..

As for going with a non condensing boiler, my understanding is we'd have to bring in outside air, provide a drain, and do something with the exhaust, since I somehow can't imagine a PVC pipe going into the chimney (shared with the hot water heater, which is realatively new - less than a year). To bring in outside air and a drain would be troublesome because of the existing location, moving things is out of the question (and even if we could, it'd be a major job).

Our heating bill's not that bad now - the home's been tightened up a bit over the years (there's at least 18" of pink stuff above my room, we've got all new windows, foamed in). I'm not sure the extra $$$ and work to install one would be worth the savings. Yes, I know they're 90+% efficient, but it seems we're comparing 90 - 98% Vs 82/83% - it just doesn't seem like a big deal.

Oh yes - we actually do have more B&W than color TV sets in the house - I collect antique TVs as a hobby I'm still looking for a 50's color one, though

Floyd_5

Good points, Mark

May I also add the auto technology... can you imagine driving a '57 Chev. as your primary vehicle today????

Save a buck today and pay the Gas Co. for the rest of the life of the boiler...me... I'll screw the Gas Co. every chance I get!!! They sure put it to me when ever the oppurtunity arises......Oh well.. that's another story....

Anyway I think it is prudent to find and have biult the most eff. heating system possible.... we've had it soooooooooooooo easy for so long.....

I'm not that old, but old enough to have gassed my car for .30/gal. We'll never see buck a gallon gas again....heating fuels will do nothing but go up......

Don't be a penny wise... and a pound fuelish!!!!!

Floyd

Mark Hunt

Funny


how what we do is kept in the dark ages.

So much cool stuff that will save money and fuel out there.

People are willing to pay 20+k on a vehicle they expect to drive no more than 5 years, but are not willing to spend more than a few k for something that they expect to last forever.

It just doesn't add up.

Mark H

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Floyd_5

It was really hard.....

to not post one of those really sarcastic messages....
but... he asked us to go easy on him... so....
okay it would take a bit more work to runa high eff. boiler,
however I usually find that it is easier to install a high eff. boiler correctly than to install a dinosaur correctly...
I mean... that chimeny liner is a real bbbbbbb....ugger to get pulled through a chimney, and if you ain't got fresh air and you tightened the house up, then you better best be gettin' fresh air in there some where or be wakin' up dead.....
and the condensate... whoop de do!!!! buy a 20 dollar pump,
peanuts, considering the over all price of the system.
And that "almost new" piece of crap hot water heater, that wastes heat up the stack all year long.... sell it in the penny saver for a 100 bucks to another cheap sucker and put in an indirect that will out last you, after all the regular hot water heater only has a life span of about 1 month after the warrranty runs out... you think those hot water heater guys ain't got that figger out yet????? Yeah right.......

It's gettin' late.... I'm gettin' cranky......

Floyd

GaryDidier

new system

I would not reuse the old circulators. They use a lot of power compared to cartridge circulators, are noisier, require lubrication and are much heavier and more difficult to design into a system. They are also 2-3 times as expensive to replace. I use and like Peerless boilers for my nuts and bolts installs. Very good company support!
Gary from Granville

Mike F

I would look into Buderus boilers. They use the best materials and and design. Everything form adjustable leveling legs and heavy duty jackets with built in handles to integerated reset control that can handle any return water temp with out built in cirulator bypass. I can not say enough good things about this boiler.

DIY Homeowner

From one to another

I would at least go with sealed combustion, bring in your combustion air from the outside. No need to depressurize your house while the boiler is running. I second the indirect water heater, if you can afford it.

ScottMP

Phil

When you buy a car do you ask them to put your old tires on the new car "cause their not in bad shape " ?.

Why use your old circulators with a new boiler. Think system and not equipment. Your putting in a new heating system to your home that may last up to 20 years. Do it all and do it right. Once installed properly your system should give you years of service. If you piece it together you can look forward to years of small service calls and interupted heat.

Just my two cents

Scott

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Einsiedler

57 CHEVY

I happen to like my 57 Chevy. Up until the time I really needed ABS brakes... so much for the Chevy. Now I ride an brand new YZF-R1.. this new technology is great!!..

funny thing is.. if it wasn't for the need for new wheels, I'd still be addin oil to the 57' (would never have test riden an R1)..

Buck up & buy the BEST you CAN AFFORD. (not the best there is, just the best you have the money to spend on) you won't be sorry.

EINSIEDLER