Disintegrating pipe joints

Peter Hayden

I have a closed HW heating system that's only about 4 years old, and the solder joints are starting to corrode and leak. I replaced the first two joints last spring and chalked them up to bum solder joints. I now have 4 more joints either leaking or show signs of currosion.

HELP!!!!

The system was originally cleaned, run on water, then filled with 50% Propoylene Glycol, and 1 quart of cleaner/inhibitor. I did an informal check of the pH and got a reading between 9 and 10, which I gather is right where it should be, but I used a soil test kit because that's the only thing I had on hand so my results may be off a bit. I did cross check by measuring the pH of my tap water usnig the same kit and it was 7 so I don't think my measurements are off by much. Regardless, I've got a sample jar of the coolant and will retest with proper equipment.

Assuming the pH is indeed in the 9-10 range, what the heck is happening to my heating system? One person said that other minerals etc in my tap water are causing the corrosion. Another person said this is what happens with anti-freeze in the system.

Other ideas? I'd like to conclusively diagnose the problem rather than experiment with theoretical solutions.

ALH

Reamed?

Were the ends of the pipe reamed after cutting? If not, erosion due to the fluid turbulence can occur at the joints. The speed with which this occurs depends on the velocity of the fluid in the pipe and the properties of the fluid. Also, not all solder is created equal. Perhaps the wrong alloy or inferior quality solder was used. Either way it's a big problem and you'll probably have to repipe the copper to solve it. Hopefully you dont have a lot of hidden solder joints.

Peter Hayden

I don't know if they were reemed. Installation was by a local guy who's done alot of these systems before.

Wouldn't errosion be a much longer-term effect than the 3-5 year issue I'm seeing?

kid plumber_2

i had a similar thnig happen to me . it was caused by the flux used on the job

Peter Hayden

How did you resolve it

How did you resolve the problem? Flush and clean? Did you have to re-plumb everything?

I understand one of the reasons for flushing and running a new system for a period of time before filling with the final coolant is to clean out flux and other contaminants. This was done on my system, but I have no way to know how effectively it was done.

hr

The correct way

to clean flux, oil, grease, etc from a systenm is with a cleaner made for this. Plenty of hydronic system cleaner and flush producte out there.

This is CRITICAL with glycol systems, in my opinion. Dirty systems will ruin the inhibitors in the glycol right away.

Blend water is another thing to watch. If it doesn't fall into the manufactures specs, this too, will use up the inhibitors.

Generally, ph is the main number to watch. More involved testing would be needed to check the O-2 scavangers and other ingrediants. Generally you need to send a sample to the manufacture for this.

Questionable solder joints will slowly weep glycol, after time. It seems to find the smallest path to leak out. Did you disassemble and inspect the leaking joints. This could be a clue to the problem.

hot rod

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Peter Hayden

Who can analyze the fluid

The cleaning process was supposedly done using a cleaner, etc. I know the system was run for a month or so when new before draining and refilling with the prop-glycol. But if wasn't success for complete enough, that coudl certainly explain the problem.

Who can analyze a fluid sample to help me figure this out? A bunch of the contaminants that I've read about would show up as low pH, and that doesn't appear to be the case. Any ideas on other contaminants that would not lower pH, yet still cause such distruction? When I flush and refill, I can use distilled water if necessary.

Regarding disassembling the defective joints - no, I haven't done that yet, but will. I still have the two that I replaced last spring. The current problem joints are still in service and I don't plan to replace them 'till spring. How would you disassemble them without destroying the evidence? Is it better to saw them or just heat and pull apart.

When the first two joints failed, I suspected weeping glycol. Everybody gets a bum joint once in a while. But now that I've got 4 more, I'm less inclined to believe this is the problem. Also, the installation was done by someone who's done a lot of glycol based systems with out problems.

Drew_2

Fluid Test

Send me a sample of the fluid and I'll run tests on it.
I will need to know the maker of both the proylene glycol and the inhibitor.

Call me @ 800-678-6625 Ext. 108 and I'll give you shipping details.

Drew

George_10

We have been pushing

for cleaning of all new systems before they are put into service since the release of our new cleaner and treatment products. We know that these problems can be prevented and our message is slowly getting heard. We will be happy to answer any questions on this subject by e-mail or phone. Industrial clients of ours do this all the time. The problems are similar here and the prevention of trouble is the same.